idk if its just me but all of the images are broken

edit nvm imgur is just shitty when i enlarged the image it worked

Love to see all the data and how things came out, thanks so much for doing this. Bagel and Logjam for next ESEA season? :P

I do wonder how much the ranking for daytrip and tfcl is biased by people disliking the gamemode and not giving the map enough of a chance.

But sometimes the game-mode is enough. Payload, even in this form, is an artificially slowed version of A/D and the gimmick of the cart doesn't add anything. Why should we make the game more gimmicky for the reason of supposed diversity?

I think there's some problems of 5cp, but I don't agree that payload might be the answer.

with tfcl i dont think it being a pl map is the issue, just that the map could use a huge reworking compared to other maps.

i can't speak about tfcl because i did not play it once during the tournament, but daytrip is simply worse than other a/d maps, such as gravelpit. it would also be difficult to make a better a/d map than gravelpit.

as far as daytrip goes, there is no interesting geomety; it's all flat and is also essentially a straight line. on top of that, it's pretty cramped, as there's a small area near the first point that has no purpose. there's actually almost no area that you can actually have team fights (without stacking 12 players on top of each other)

i'm also going to go ahead and say it isn't ONLY the 5cp gamemode that's flawed (but that's only because uber and demoman exists); the maps themselves don't allow for more than 1 team fight after another unless your medic lives or part of your team lives (in which case, you're giving up 1-2 points, or you're just suiciding for their medic). it would be pretty interesting to see if it could be viable to make second point specifically take a long time to cap because the defending team could still take their chances at having a somewhat even fight on that point once they respawn. at the same time, unfortunately, this would decrease the amount of forward momentum from the pushing team. however, I don't think that aspect is the most important when making a map. instead, making it possible to have multiple team fights after one another is what would make tf2 more interesting. This is obviously hard to do, and that 2nd point taking a long time is just an idea that has other downfalls of course.

Daytrip and TFCL both had some pretty major issues besides game mode. Nasty chokes and crazy bombs were the hallmarks for Daytrip, and the unplayable flank of TFCL was a whole other dimension of frustrating.

would really like to see bagel and logjam in a s25 map vote

would have been nice to see peoples relative opinions of current maps to give us something to compare the opinions of the new maps to

I really appreciate the Map Cup and the feedback it brought along with it. I have dumped enough time into A/D maps and I don't think I will be working on them again anytime soon. If I ever do make an A/D map again it will be through vigorous testing from the very start with you guys hopefully.

I received great feedback for the pl map and have just released a major new version under a new name (pl_tapline) today for those that want to test:

http://www.teamfortress.tv/39474/pl-tapline

very disappointed to see drudgery rated this poorly, definitely stings, especially after the lovely twitch comments, but I'm really truly thankful for the statistics, I was honestly under this odd impression that I'd made something "different" and once it got out of a pug setting people would suddenly "get it" if you know what I mean. I can accept now that it's just subpar, and that's the way it is. It's hard to hear that, but I did need it, definitely.

I think the plan now for me is a final rebuild of the entire thing before I cut my losses completely, I think it'd be nice for me to be able to say it's done, so I need to do a full optimisation and detail pass- I might as well improve it to the best of my abilities while I do that and take some of the advice given. If you have any strong feelings about improvements, I would still love to hear about it.

Thanks all who played my map, even if it didn't turn out the way I hoped, it was a great learning experience. I know it sounds really soppy and weird, but it's hard not to be a little emotional about it.. I'll try to do better next time :--)