What's your Twitch username?

http://www.twitch.tv/thewoundedstapler/profile, sorry about not including it before! I only ever streamed on it once, but i'll be streaming TF2 frequently if everything goes well :D

So do you play competitive TF2 at all? Or do you have any involvement in the competitive TF2 community?

Hey, thanks for the response, I actually do not play competitive TF2 but I do have involvement with the competitive TF2 community by providing commentary and videos that make people laugh and enjoy themselves!

http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/15023-the-game-plan-tf2/1

While I can appreciate your videos and I honestly think you do a great job, I'm sorry to say that I cannot put your stream on the sidebar because this website focuses on competitive content and we limit the amount of 'pubbing" content as best we can.

Keep up the good work, and let me know if you have any questions/concerns.

As long as the people would enjoy watching it, I would seriously see no problem with putting him on the sidebar, Slin.

There are a lot of Trading,MvM, Dota, Lol, Farming Simulator streams or w/e on the sidebar already, so why would you not give him a chance and gain some extra viewers for TF.tv.

I think most of the people on here like what he's doing and it would help him out and not "damage" (or whatever you think putting him on the sidebar would do) this site at all.

I'd rather watch pubs from an entertaining person with a different and somewhat unique perspective on the game than some silent dota/lol player.

I kind of understand wanting to keep it competitive, but I think we're way past the point of actually thinking there are primarily competitive tf2 streams on the sidebar. Right now the streams playing are 3 non-tf2, 2 pubs, and 1 lobby.

Haha thanks for the compliments, and I kind of figured that might be the answer, I was extremely nervous of posting it here because I saw previous replies regarding competitive TF2 questions and I knew i'd fail out of it! I'm not sure if your mind has been made up yet, but i'd love it if you could atleast give my stream a chance on Friday and at least that way, you can tell for yourself if there's an audience for it!

I've been really able to up my competitive game from watching makaveli's stream

That's good to hear, i'm not sure who this Makaveli person is but it's cool that he was able to improve your gameplay! I'm not too sure what you'll get from watching me play, mostly laughter and butt clenching at how bad I am haha!

sorry i was sassing MR_SLIN because this Makaveli person never streams competitive tf2, which is a requirement for being on the sidebar.

Oh haha, no need to sass MR_SLIN, i'm sure he has his reasons not to put me on the sidebar, after all, this is a competitive tf2 site. I'd be cool if he were to reconsider and maybe try me out for a day, but no harm no foul!

Slin, I completely disagree with you. Between Dota, LoL, MvM, Hearthstone and some other games, there are many people (not going to name names) that are almost never streaming competitive TF2. Also, his opening post is already at +11 frags (not that +frags mean a ton, but still...). When was the last time a stream request was that supported?

Put his damn stream on the sidebar, Slin, or I'll do it myself.

Thanks for giving me a chance at proving my stream haha, means a lot :D

It's not my decision guys. I just follow the rules. If you have an issue then take it up with the site owner.

Every other pub-only stream has not made the sidebar, and I'm just keeping things consistent and fair.

Makavelli is an exception -- I believe he is Enigma's friend. Again, it's his website his call.

Just so we're clear here --

Streams don't make the sidebar based on entertainment value or stream quality. On TFTV we have streams ranging from Ggglygy video quality to Truktruk video quality. Entertainment value does not matter either, as it would be too much work for me to vet each stream, and it's completely subjective.

The only thing that is important to us is that the person is member of the competitive TF2 community. That way people who are looking at the site can interact with members of the competitive community. We realize that not everyone can be playing competitive TF2 at all hours of the day (after all, the PUG hours for this game are very limited, and scrim hours are even more limited) and that is why you can stream other games besides TF2. Pubs, MvM, whatever is all fine as long as that is the case. All that we ask is that you try to stream mostly TF2 (i.e. you're a TF2 streamer not a Starcraft or League-only stream).

This should be pretty clear but if it is not then feel free to post here or send me a PM.

Jamesswe?, cmon you gave him a shot. Why not give stapler a shot?

I misread Jamesswe and he got through. I thought he was a comp player, turns out he wasn't.

Lol, can someone please roster him on a UGC team so that he can fulfill this "Competitively Active" bullshit.

For what it's worth, i'm streaming right now, maybe, JUST MAYBE, you can watch me and determine for yourself if i'm worthy!

http://www.twitch.tv/thewoundedstapler

I watched a bit and you're a very personable, entertaining guy. Your stream, however, features zero competitive content and you don't participate in any of the online leagues for TF2. However, you are streaming Jumping content and that does qualify you...it's just not enough. According to your schedule this is a one-off event. Therefore, I need to see some more streaming before I put you on, so I will table your request for now.

I'm sorry that I can't put you on at this time but feel free to bump your thread or make a new post later on. We appreciate the enthusiasm and interest.

Hey thanks for getting a chance to stop by, and plans change, so it being a one-off thing might change but i'll update this request every time I stream and maybe we can work something out, thanks for giving me a chance! :D

Well I just wrote a huge (like, over 2000 words) essay on this, but internets are bad. So I'm pissed and can't be arsed to write another book.

Let's move quick here.

Point making time! Slin, I don't want some like, official response or anything, I want your actual thoughts.

I understand you can't do anything much about anything I say, I want thoughts rather than actions really.

1. this guy is freaking great at entertaining.
2. TF2 needs new people joining competitive or it'll die. If this guy goes big then we get that.
3. If he doesn't go big then we broke one rule for a gamble (like a kritz, right.). Oh well.
4. the rule above that we broke is invalid in that the SITE OWNER BROKE IT ANYWAY. What a great example. If he can do it as a lone individual, why can't the entire community stand up for it's self in the same manner?
5. In response to likely response to the above response to your response to the idea of this dude doing that thing: There's a point when a website and thus its owner have a responsibility to their community moreso than their own personal control of the website and its administration. This website is something big now, amalgomously becoming the competitive hub. It needs to show that rather than being a dude who can do whatever and everyone else.
6. "competitive hub" Boom! I just argued against myself so you don't have to. But the point is the competitive community is symbiotic with the general interest in the game, obviously.
7. Elitism that comes from creating a site that's hostile to newcomers shoots both short-term personal gain in terms of the website and the general longevity of both the game in general and the competitive community in the foot. That's really counter-beneficial, which is bad...
8. This dude is actually awesome.
9. him blowing up like STAR or whatever and being linked to this site = hella traffic, I'm talking $$$ here. Case study: A dude called Jerma posted a video about MGE right, he's kinda crap at tf2, but this video (and him) are fairly popular among newer players, and suddenly there were tons of new people in all of the MGE servers. If our stapler here gets big and has a direct link to TF.TV then we get an influx, that's great. If he doesn't get big (somehow) then we broke an arbitrary and evidently redundant rule in terms of TF2's life.
(9.5). DISCLAIMER: IDC about what you think of star or jerma or freaking shibby2142 or whatever, it's a point and it's made, plz, no flame-y.
10. Can you mis-read this one please slin?
11. Why is E's friend more important than the community's friend? Links in with earlier points, but more directed at the management and administration (and flaws therein) of this website.
12. This guy is so entertaining.
13. "We take great pride in our thriving global community and want it to continue to exist as a healthy medium to exchange ideas and discuss TF2 and other topics" That is this website literally stating that it's bigger than one admin's word.

I feel like I had more to say in the enourmous, 460 page book that I wrote first time around, but maybe I'm all placebo.

Again, just want opinion really. Also, don't ban me E, I know you! (I don't. Ban me. It'll prove your tyranny and open the eyes of the oppressed. There will be a revolution, and I shall be its martyr!)

Also, if he wants to be on the sidebar, I'll get him there. It's not hard to draft him into a comp team, either roll without too much help from him or have him roster ride or pug a bit or anything. (Not saying you're bad stapler, but you're kinda bad.) Just throwing that out there.

TL:DR: This guy is pretty cool, let's not lie here.

I told you this once, and i'll say it again, write some professional reviews man! And also, thank you for the support haha, means a lot, but I hope you don't get banned. If I see you get banned, it'll be pretty nasty and i'll make sure someone pays the price, you're a huge asset to this community and I hope this whole thing can get resolved without it getting out of control!

I wouldn't worry about me getting banned, lol. Enigma's a nice guy, and if he did I wouldn't care. He'd just go down in my (and a lot of people's) opinions. Although the site would become a little of a joke if he did it personally.

I couldn't stand to read the whole thing but I did have a discussion with other staff members about this.

While I understand your points and have a personal interest in growing TF2 myself, my main focus in being a mod on this site is to facilitate the adding of streams and contributing to the competitive community in the best way that I can. Before your start criticizing the way that we do things, you need to first understand where we came from.

Enigma runs the site but he created this request forum pretty early on to field responses from the community regarding how to make site improvements but also to receive feedback from users if they needed help with anything. Once streams started getting bigger within TF2, more people wanted to be added on. Requests to have streams added would sit there for days or even weeks with no response, and it's hard to blame Enigma for not processing those requests when there are a million other things for him to do.

So I stepped up to the plate and began easing the process. I didn't want to deal with the questionable streams -- I only wanted to add the streams that were VERY obviously supposed to be on the sidebar. I let Enigma take care of the questionable streams, or the streams that may or may not make the bar. It's gotten to the point where it is more of a grey area now, and yes, it's hard to tell which streams should go up and which ones shouldn't, but it's ultimately a judgment call on my part and if I'm not involved then nobody will ever look at the stream request.

Why do we bother limiting the number of streams on the sidebar? Why don't we add all streams? This is a TF2 website and they're playing TF2 right? Well, it's a little more complicated than that. When we first started out, I literally added 100% of all streams. However, it soon became apparent that we needed to limit that. We wanted TFTV to have a focus on the competitive aspects of TF2 whether it be 6v6 or 9v9 Highlander, but we also widened the net to include jumping and surfing as well. Having streams on the sidebar that didn't feature that kind of content seemed counter to our objectives. Secondly, Enigma came back to me and told me that I was bogging down the Twitch API that the site uses by adding so many streams. That API refreshes the number of users actively watching each stream, and if there's too many streams then I suppose that gets slowed down (that's my understanding of it).

So that's why we limit streams. The fairest way to determine whether or not people made the bar was to evaluate 1) if they streamed TF2, 2) if they streamed consistently so as to not take up a slot on the refresh list that would never be used, and 3) if they were a member of the competitive TF2 community then we wanted to support their streaming efforts.

When it comes to a guy like TheWoundedStapler, yeah he's a great entertainer, but it's not furthering our goals of supporting competitive TF2 streaming. People will surely visit TFTV and be directed to his pubbing/newb content, but I see no way that he would direct people from his pubbing content over to the competitive content that TFTV focuses on. In fact, both his stream and his YouTube channel focus on a multitude of games, not just TF2, and so while he may be in a TF2 phase now, he will likely not be in the future. Lastly, it's important to me that we don't just add every great streaming entertainer out there. Why not add Shibby or Jerma985 to the sidebar? Doesn't he entertain thousands of people with their TF2 content? Well sure they do but their audiences and goals do not align with those of TFTV. It simply doesn't make sense.

I'm all for having a discussion about this but be reasonable here.

Wow, I did not know the history of this website and how it's run, that's some deep insight there! On the note of me being mentioned in your post, TF2 is always going to have a special place in my heart, even though I might be playing a multitude of games, i'll still be rolling out TF2 content and streaming frequently now that I realized how fun it is! On top of that, me being a pub/newb TF2 player can and will attract a lot of attention to this site, now that's IF I go big haha, at the rate that i'm moving it's steady and healthy but there's still that off chance of being featured on sites like this that can increase that chance of going big and most of the community seems to approve of my content so if anything, people watching my videos can see how much genuine fun i'm having with this game and it'll bring them over to this website where they'll find competitive content, thus improving your long term traffic.

I'm not much of a numbers guy here, but i'm assuming that if my videos start to peak past 1000s of views and my stream gets a bit more watched, you'll be seeing people who've never played TF2 suddenly want to try it out and maybe even pursue a pro scene. I have been lurking on these forums and posts without an account for a while, I finally had the guts to make an account and show some of my material and it took off, but the fact that the forum was able to attract me is a real life example as to how people who've never played the game but are interested in this genre are going to react!

But like I said before multiple times, i'm not mad/angry at you haha, I appreciate all the work you're putting into your job and at the end of the day, rules are rules! I guess what everyone is asking including myself is, why not put up a streamer whose so heavily wanted by the community as a whole rather than putting up streamers who don't even stream TF2 most of the time!

Same then mate.

I was. They were points, not demands.

If you're so bored with the tedium of having people make obviously valid points, then I guess I'll take logic elsewhere, Admin: 1. Entire community: 0.