#1
Frags 55
Hey,
A week ago I started working on competitive TF2 betting website and made an ETF2L thread, but then someone suggested that I should write here too.

How's it gonna work:
Players are gonna have their own virtual inventory to which they can deposit or withdraw items sending tradeoffer to the bot.

Then after adding items to the inventory they will be able to place bets. I am currently not sure how am I going to calculate wins (either by calculating odds and giving guaranteed prizes and either taking what's left or throwing in if I set winning chance too low or by just splitting the losers pool between winners).
The first way is more difficult as I need to take risk and decide on win chances on every match myself and I don't really know what's going on in other leagues than ETF2L while the other one creates a risk that people won't be very convinced to bet without guaranteed prize, which Gentelman Jon explained in this post:
Without the odds you might have difficulty drumming up bets as everyone waits for a decent stockpile to appear on the other side of the match, whereas with odds punters have a guaranteed chance of a return so have more incentive to bet.

After winning users will get their bounty in keys and metal transferred to their inventory from which they can either withdraw them or place another bet.

How can you help:
I will need some beta testers soon and then later if I decide to go with odds some admins to help me with setting chances, mathematicians, statisticians and other numbers people are especially welcomed!
If you want to help me with programming you're also welcomed. FYI everything is written using Python, HTML, SASS and JavaScript.

Deposit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8zyU4k3Fs4
Hey,
A week ago I started working on competitive TF2 betting website and made an ETF2L thread, but then someone suggested that I should write here too.

[b]How's it gonna work:[/b]
Players are gonna have their own virtual inventory to which they can deposit or withdraw items sending tradeoffer to the bot.
[url=http://i.imgur.com/89rzTe4.png][img]http://i.imgur.com/89rzTe4.png[/img][/url]
Then after adding items to the inventory they will be able to place bets. I am currently not sure how am I going to calculate wins (either by calculating odds and giving guaranteed prizes and either taking what's left or throwing in if I set winning chance too low or by just splitting the losers pool between winners).
The first way is more difficult as I need to take risk and decide on win chances on every match myself and I don't really know what's going on in other leagues than ETF2L while the other one creates a risk that people won't be very convinced to bet without guaranteed prize, which Gentelman Jon explained in this post:
[quote]Without the odds you might have difficulty drumming up bets as everyone waits for a decent stockpile to appear on the other side of the match, whereas with odds punters have a guaranteed chance of a return so have more incentive to bet.[/quote]
[url=http://i.imgur.com/t2eeALM.png][img]http://i.imgur.com/t2eeALM.png[/img][/url]
After winning users will get their bounty in keys and metal transferred to their inventory from which they can either withdraw them or place another bet.

[b]How can you help:[/b]
I will need some beta testers soon and then later if I decide to go with odds some admins to help me with setting chances, mathematicians, statisticians and other numbers people are especially welcomed!
If you want to help me with programming you're also welcomed. FYI everything is written using Python, HTML, SASS and JavaScript.

[b]Deposit:[/b]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8zyU4k3Fs4[/youtube]
#2 4 5 3 Frags
Looks interesting, been betting at csgolounge.com and lost $50, maybe I can recover it if you get this site running :)
Looks interesting, been betting at csgolounge.com and lost $50, maybe I can recover it if you get this site running :)
#3 2 3 1 Frags
Always wanted to create a website like this for tf, wish you luck!
Always wanted to create a website like this for tf, wish you luck!
#4 3 4 2 Frags
Hm, I've been working on something similar on and off, but yours looks far better!
The way I thought about handling the bets is splitting the losers pot among winners, and whatever is leftover would be the "jackpot" - as in, one randomly chosen person from the winners would get this. This way, people could bet against the favorites to attempt to get a split from the winners pot, or bet for the top team to get a chance at winning the jackpot. Of course, this is untested and just an idea I had, it might just be as flawed as the regular pot splitting idea.
I also left keys out of the betting system because of their changing price - I limited it to metals. How are you handling this - do you just update the value of keys every so often?
Hm, [url=http://greencouchgames.net/tf2bets/]I've been working on something similar on and off[/url], but yours looks far better!
The way I thought about handling the bets is splitting the losers pot among winners, and whatever is leftover would be the "jackpot" - as in, one randomly chosen person from the winners would get this. This way, people could bet against the favorites to attempt to get a split from the winners pot, or bet for the top team to get a chance at winning the jackpot. Of course, this is untested and just an idea I had, it might just be as flawed as the regular pot splitting idea.
I also left keys out of the betting system because of their changing price - I limited it to metals. How are you handling this - do you just update the value of keys every so often?
#5 2 3 1 Frags
I want to change keys to metal on deposit using scrap.tf's bots. I already made an attempt to contact geel, not sure how it will turn out.
I want to change keys to metal on deposit using scrap.tf's bots. I already made an attempt to contact geel, not sure how it will turn out.
#6 2 3 1 Frags
CHERRY going HAM

Looks like you've done an amazing job so far, please keep it up!
CHERRY going HAM

Looks like you've done an amazing job so far, please keep it up!
#7 3 4 2 Frags
Deposit items in 30 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8zyU4k3Fs4
Deposit items in 30 seconds:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8zyU4k3Fs4[/youtube]
#8 5 6 4 Frags
Now I have a site where I can lose all my keys betting on Tankman, Yes!
Now I have a site where I can lose all my keys betting on Tankman, Yes!
#9 –3 –2 –4 Frags
Does the site look like this for anyone else or is it just my end.
Does the site look like this for anyone else or is it just my end.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/aUjFICA.png[/img]
#10 4 5 3 Frags
Does the site look like this for anyone else or is it just my end.

it isn't finished
[quote=Lord_Potato]Does the site look like this for anyone else or is it just my end.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/aUjFICA.png[/img][/quote]
it isn't finished
#11 5 6 4 Frags
oh ok, i'm an idiot
oh ok, i'm an idiot
#12 3 4 2 Frags
The Saltybet way of handling payouts may be a good idea for this, where the winners earn a percentage of the losers pool based on what percentage of the winners pool they staked. So if your bet is 10% of the winners pool, you get 10% of the losers pool + your bet back. Provides an incentive to bet underdog (dreams!), which helps keep the odds in check somewhat.
The Saltybet way of handling payouts may be a good idea for this, where the winners earn a percentage of the losers pool based on what percentage of the winners pool they staked. So if your bet is 10% of the winners pool, you get 10% of the losers pool + your bet back. Provides an incentive to bet underdog (dreams!), which helps keep the odds in check somewhat.
#13 1 2 0 Frags
The main page crashes The Saltybet way of handling payouts may be a good idea for this, where the winners earn a percentage of the losers pool based on what percentage of the winners pool they staked. So if your bet is 10% of the winners pool, you get 10% of the losers pool + your bet back. Provides an incentive to bet underdog (dreams!), which helps keep the odds in check somewhat.
I will propably do something like that.

Anyway the website is supposed to crash on index, but there's not much to do on other pages anyway.
The main page crashes [quote=LtSteve]The Saltybet way of handling payouts may be a good idea for this, where the winners earn a percentage of the losers pool based on what percentage of the winners pool they staked. So if your bet is 10% of the winners pool, you get 10% of the losers pool + your bet back. Provides an incentive to bet underdog (dreams!), which helps keep the odds in check somewhat.[/quote]
I will propably do something like that.

Anyway the website is supposed to crash on index, but there's not much to do on other pages anyway.
#14 3 4 2 Frags
I was actually thinking about something like this, but it's more like a bank. You can put refined metal in "the bank" and it gains interest. In return, the bank owners can loan that money for profit, just like a normal bank. Does anything like this exist?
I was actually thinking about something like this, but it's more like a bank. You can put refined metal in "the bank" and it gains interest. In return, the bank owners can loan that money for profit, just like a normal bank. Does anything like this exist?
#15 5 6 4 Frags
I was actually thinking about something like this, but it's more like a bank. You can put refined metal in "the bank" and it gains interest. In return, the bank owners can loan that money for profit, just like a normal bank. Does anything like this exist?
Nah, and there won't be anything like this. Imagine how hard it will be to get the metal back from people.
[quote=chive]I was actually thinking about something like this, but it's more like a bank. You can put refined metal in "the bank" and it gains interest. In return, the bank owners can loan that money for profit, just like a normal bank. Does anything like this exist?[/quote]
Nah, and there won't be anything like this. Imagine how hard it will be to get the metal back from people.
#16 3 4 2 Frags
A possibility that you might look into for betting is spread betting, where people bet on the margin of victory instead of the victor itself. It would help encourage betting in games with a clear favorite to win.

On the side you could also have over-under bets on match stats like damage totals, frags, Uber drops, etc.
A possibility that you might look into for betting is spread betting, where people bet on the margin of victory instead of the victor itself. It would help encourage betting in games with a clear favorite to win.

On the side you could also have over-under bets on match stats like damage totals, frags, Uber drops, etc.
#17 1 2 0 Frags
Looks good!
Any chance there's any ESEA or UGC NA?
Looks good!
Any chance there's any ESEA or UGC NA?
#18 2 3 1 Frags
Yeah, there will be NA
Yeah, there will be NA
#19 10 11 9 Frags
Just do the betting percentages and everything like it's done on csgo lounge. Also thank you so much for making this, csgo lounge insanely raised the numbers of viewers for the csgo match streams and hopefully this can do the same for tf2. This could be really really successful and boost the stream views by a ton but for it to work people need to step up and cast multiple matches a night not just one a week, the people betting want something to watch that isnt just an stv.
Just do the betting percentages and everything like it's done on csgo lounge. Also thank you so much for making this, csgo lounge insanely raised the numbers of viewers for the csgo match streams and hopefully this can do the same for tf2. This could be really really successful and boost the stream views by a ton but for it to work people need to step up and cast multiple matches a night not just one a week, the people betting want something to watch that isnt just an stv.
#20 2 3 1 Frags
I also hope that it'll show pubs competitive side of a game.
I will give you an update tommorow since I already turned off my computer.
Anyway I need to contact Scrap.TF so if any of you knows them please ask them if they could contact me. Unfortunately none of them is accepting my friend requests :/
My steam profile: http://steamcommunity.com/id/123Coke
I also hope that it'll show pubs competitive side of a game.
I will give you an update tommorow since I already turned off my computer.
Anyway I need to contact [b]Scrap.TF[/b] so if any of you knows them please ask them if they could contact me. Unfortunately none of them is accepting my friend requests :/
My steam profile: http://steamcommunity.com/id/123Coke
#21 4 5 3 Frags
The issue with changing keys straight to metal is that people will be reluctant to deposit keys at all as they are pretty much on a constant rise. I would exchange them on bet rather than on deposit, so that people know that by having keys deposited they aren't losing value.

Other ideas:
Rosters come up if you click on a team maybe? Could help people see who they are betting on
Have a friends bar on the side where you can see how much your steam friends have lost/won recently, sort of like the duels thing you see on map change
Also maybe a scoreboard of biggest winners each week? Could encourage betters.
Allow comments on matches so people can shit talk about how they are gonna win big on this one
The issue with changing keys straight to metal is that people will be reluctant to deposit keys at all as they are pretty much on a constant rise. I would exchange them on bet rather than on deposit, so that people know that by having keys deposited they aren't losing value.

Other ideas:
Rosters come up if you click on a team maybe? Could help people see who they are betting on
Have a friends bar on the side where you can see how much your steam friends have lost/won recently, sort of like the duels thing you see on map change
Also maybe a scoreboard of biggest winners each week? Could encourage betters.
Allow comments on matches so people can shit talk about how they are gonna win big on this one
#22 1 2 0 Frags
The issue with changing keys straight to metal is that people will be reluctant to deposit keys at all as they are pretty much on a constant rise. I would exchange them on bet rather than on deposit, so that people know that by having keys deposited they aren't losing value.
It would be really awkward in my honest opinion, keys should either be bet(?) or they shouldn't be part of virtual inventory at all, and making a trade with keys buying bots when someone bets keys would also overcomplicate the process

Other ideas:
Rosters come up if you click on a team maybe?
Could help people see who they are betting on

That's not a bad idea.
Have a friends bar on the side where you can see how much your steam friends have lost/won recently, sort of like the duels thing you see on map change
This one could discourage betting if they see that they friends lost, I like this one much better:
Also maybe a scoreboard of biggest winners each week? Could encourage betters.
Allow comments on matches so people can shit talk about how they are gonna win big on this one


How withdrawals work
Withdrawing item was very hard to design as Valve wants us to specify exact item that we want to trade rather than just any refined metal. This is real problem when two users want the same item and bot has to decline one trade so I had to implement some sort of queue like you can see on scrap.tf and other automated trading websites.
Bot could send offers himself, taking care of choosing correct items, but then users will need to give me their secret token and it makes the site overcomplicated, since I want signing up as easy as signing in.
So I decided to make withdrawal work the same way as deposit, you click on withdrawal button, establish connection with bot and when you reach first place in line you get Trade just like in the previous case. The only difference is that you need to select bots inventory and items that you want to get from him instead of giving him items from yours. If you select more than 2 items of the same kind (except refs), like 3 scraps or 4 recs your trade will be declined automatically, otherwise if you fit in 120 seconds timeframe your trade will get accepted.
[quote=haz]The issue with changing keys straight to metal is that people will be reluctant to deposit keys at all as they are pretty much on a constant rise. I would exchange them on bet rather than on deposit, so that people know that by having keys deposited they aren't losing value.[/quote]
It would be really awkward in my honest opinion, keys should either be bet(?) or they shouldn't be part of virtual inventory at all, and making a trade with keys buying bots when someone bets keys would also overcomplicate the process

[quote=haz]Other ideas:
Rosters come up if you click on a team maybe?
Could help people see who they are betting on[/quote]
That's not a bad idea.
[quote=haz]Have a friends bar on the side where you can see how much your steam friends have lost/won recently, sort of like the duels thing you see on map change[/quote]
This one could discourage betting if they see that they friends lost, I like this one much better:
[quote=haz]Also maybe a scoreboard of biggest winners each week? Could encourage betters.
Allow comments on matches so people can shit talk about how they are gonna win big on this one[/quote]

[b]How withdrawals work[/b]
Withdrawing item was very hard to design as Valve wants us to specify [b]exact[/b] item that we want to trade rather than just any refined metal. This is real problem when two users want the same item and bot has to decline one trade so I had to implement some sort of queue like you can see on scrap.tf and other automated trading websites.
Bot could send offers himself, taking care of choosing correct items, but then users will need to give me their secret token and it makes the site overcomplicated, since I want signing up as easy as signing in.
So I decided to make withdrawal work the same way as deposit, you click on withdrawal button, establish connection with bot and when you reach first place in line you get [b]Trade[/b] just like in the previous case. The only difference is that you need to select bots inventory and items that you want to get from him instead of giving him items from yours. If you select more than 2 items of the same kind (except refs), like 3 scraps or 4 recs your trade will be declined automatically, otherwise if you fit in 120 seconds timeframe your trade will get accepted.
#23 3 4 2 Frags
Finally betting site!
Finally betting site!
#24 4 5 3 Frags
There's easter and I am preparing a party for my 18th birthday so there hasn't been much progress, but before that I was working on the backend:
There's easter and I am preparing a party for my 18th birthday so there hasn't been much progress, but before that I was working on the backend:
[url=http://i.imgur.com/U2DozQT.png][img]http://i.imgur.com/U2DozQT.png[/img][/url]
#25 3 4 2 Frags
Bought VPS in Seattle propably in the same datacenter as Steam since I have 0.6-0.8 ms latency to steamcommunity.com servers :)
Bought VPS in Seattle propably in the same datacenter as Steam since I have 0.6-0.8 ms latency to steamcommunity.com servers :)
#26 1 2 0 Frags
Just wanted to add that even though the server is in Seattle I set up a CDN for it.
If I'll be happy with CloudFlare and my project will get enough interest I'll propably buy PRO package, if not I will just buy VPSes in Amsterdam, Moscow and Singapore to deliver content like images or scripts.
Just wanted to add that even though the server is in Seattle I set up a CDN for it.
If I'll be happy with CloudFlare and my project will get enough interest I'll propably buy PRO package, if not I will just buy VPSes in Amsterdam, Moscow and Singapore to deliver content like images or scripts.
#27 15 16 14 Frags
bump. wondering how this is going and stuff
bump. wondering how this is going and stuff
#28 0 1 –1 Frags
when this happens im gonna get so much rares items
when this happens im gonna get so much [s]rares[/s] items
#29 2 3 1 Frags
Looks rad, here's to hoping it all gets working properly!
Looks rad, here's to hoping it all gets working properly!
#30 1 2 0 Frags
This looks cool
This looks cool
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