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Saloon.tf
1
#1
36 Frags +

http://saloon.tf/images/logo.png?v=0.1
For the past few months I've been working on a betting website (with a little help of my friends) , which is now ready to for the official announcement to the wider audience.

Saloon.tf hosts bets for all major leagues and competitions from all over the world.

We're using parimutuel betting known mainly from horse races, which means that instead of using fixed predefined odds beforehand, the payoff odds will be calculated by sharing the lost items among the winners.

The main reason for doing this is that I can't go bankrupt unable to cover payoffs if I set wrong odds or underestimate amount of players involved. The other thing is that I will avoid accusations of doing Black Sox coming from the upset users as I don't have particular interest in any of the sides winning and you can trust me to do my best to prevent 322 though it may not be entirely possible.

Odds can minimally change during the time, which is why I've decided to let users switch their picks (as long as the status isn’t locked), so they can react for changing payout values.
Items' values are updated using trade.tf’s API just before distributing them. You're able to place all genuie, vintage and unique keys, cosmetic items, paint cans and metals in your bet as long as they fit in the price range between earbuds and refined metal.

Huge part of betting is watching the games and we want to help you enjoy that displaying casts from BlackOutGaming.TV, TeamFortress.TV and other orgs!

[img]http://saloon.tf/images/logo.png?v=0.1[/img]
For the past few months I've been working on a betting website ([b]with a little help of my friends[/b]) , which is now ready to for the official announcement to the wider audience.

[b]Saloon.tf[/b] hosts bets for all major leagues and competitions from all over the world.

We're using [b]parimutuel[/b] betting known mainly from horse races, which means that instead of using fixed predefined odds beforehand, the payoff odds will be calculated by sharing the lost items among the winners.

The main reason for doing this is that I can't go bankrupt unable to cover payoffs if I set wrong odds or underestimate amount of players involved. The other thing is that I will avoid accusations of doing [b][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sox_Scandal]Black Sox[/url][/b] coming from the upset users as I don't have particular interest in any of the sides winning and you can trust me to do my best to prevent [b][url=http://dota2.gamepedia.com/RoX.KIS]322[/url][/b] though it may not be entirely possible.

Odds can minimally change during the time, which is why I've decided to let users switch their picks (as long as the status isn’t locked), so they can react for changing payout values.
Items' values are updated using [b][url=http://trade.tf]trade.tf’s API[/url][/b] just before distributing them. You're able to place all genuie, vintage and unique keys, cosmetic items, paint cans and metals in your bet as long as they fit in the price range between earbuds and refined metal.


Huge part of betting is watching the games and we want to help you enjoy that displaying casts from [b][url=http://www.twitch.tv/blackoutgamingtv]BlackOutGaming.TV[/url][/b], [b][url=http://www.twitch.tv/teamfortresstv]TeamFortress.TV[/url][/b] and other orgs!
2
#2
4 Frags +

Looks interesting, been betting at csgolounge.com and lost $50, maybe I can recover it if you get this site running :)

Looks interesting, been betting at csgolounge.com and lost $50, maybe I can recover it if you get this site running :)
3
#3
2 Frags +

Always wanted to create a website like this for tf, wish you luck!

Always wanted to create a website like this for tf, wish you luck!
4
#4
i52
3 Frags +

Hm, I've been working on something similar on and off, but yours looks far better!
The way I thought about handling the bets is splitting the losers pot among winners, and whatever is leftover would be the "jackpot" - as in, one randomly chosen person from the winners would get this. This way, people could bet against the favorites to attempt to get a split from the winners pot, or bet for the top team to get a chance at winning the jackpot. Of course, this is untested and just an idea I had, it might just be as flawed as the regular pot splitting idea.
I also left keys out of the betting system because of their changing price - I limited it to metals. How are you handling this - do you just update the value of keys every so often?

Hm, [url=http://greencouchgames.net/tf2bets/]I've been working on something similar on and off[/url], but yours looks far better!
The way I thought about handling the bets is splitting the losers pot among winners, and whatever is leftover would be the "jackpot" - as in, one randomly chosen person from the winners would get this. This way, people could bet against the favorites to attempt to get a split from the winners pot, or bet for the top team to get a chance at winning the jackpot. Of course, this is untested and just an idea I had, it might just be as flawed as the regular pot splitting idea.
I also left keys out of the betting system because of their changing price - I limited it to metals. How are you handling this - do you just update the value of keys every so often?
5
#5
3 Frags +

I want to change keys to metal on deposit using scrap.tf's bots. I already made an attempt to contact geel, not sure how it will turn out.

I want to change keys to metal on deposit using scrap.tf's bots. I already made an attempt to contact geel, not sure how it will turn out.
6
#6
2 Frags +

CHERRY going HAM

Looks like you've done an amazing job so far, please keep it up!

CHERRY going HAM

Looks like you've done an amazing job so far, please keep it up!
7
#7
4 Frags +

Deposit items in 30 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8zyU4k3Fs4

Deposit items in 30 seconds:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8zyU4k3Fs4[/youtube]
8
#8
5 Frags +

Now I have a site where I can lose all my keys betting on Tankman, Yes!

Now I have a site where I can lose all my keys betting on Tankman, Yes!
9
#9
-3 Frags +

Does the site look like this for anyone else or is it just my end.
http://i.imgur.com/aUjFICA.png

Does the site look like this for anyone else or is it just my end.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/aUjFICA.png[/img]
10
#10
i52
4 Frags +
Lord_PotatoDoes the site look like this for anyone else or is it just my end.
http://i.imgur.com/aUjFICA.png

it isn't finished

[quote=Lord_Potato]Does the site look like this for anyone else or is it just my end.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/aUjFICA.png[/img][/quote]
it isn't finished
11
#11
6 Frags +

oh ok, i'm an idiot

oh ok, i'm an idiot
12
#12
3 Frags +

The Saltybet way of handling payouts may be a good idea for this, where the winners earn a percentage of the losers pool based on what percentage of the winners pool they staked. So if your bet is 10% of the winners pool, you get 10% of the losers pool + your bet back. Provides an incentive to bet underdog (dreams!), which helps keep the odds in check somewhat.

The Saltybet way of handling payouts may be a good idea for this, where the winners earn a percentage of the losers pool based on what percentage of the winners pool they staked. So if your bet is 10% of the winners pool, you get 10% of the losers pool + your bet back. Provides an incentive to bet underdog (dreams!), which helps keep the odds in check somewhat.
13
#13
1 Frags +

The main page crashes

LtSteveThe Saltybet way of handling payouts may be a good idea for this, where the winners earn a percentage of the losers pool based on what percentage of the winners pool they staked. So if your bet is 10% of the winners pool, you get 10% of the losers pool + your bet back. Provides an incentive to bet underdog (dreams!), which helps keep the odds in check somewhat.

I will propably do something like that.

Anyway the website is supposed to crash on index, but there's not much to do on other pages anyway.

The main page crashes [quote=LtSteve]The Saltybet way of handling payouts may be a good idea for this, where the winners earn a percentage of the losers pool based on what percentage of the winners pool they staked. So if your bet is 10% of the winners pool, you get 10% of the losers pool + your bet back. Provides an incentive to bet underdog (dreams!), which helps keep the odds in check somewhat.[/quote]
I will propably do something like that.

Anyway the website is supposed to crash on index, but there's not much to do on other pages anyway.
14
#14
3 Frags +

I was actually thinking about something like this, but it's more like a bank. You can put refined metal in "the bank" and it gains interest. In return, the bank owners can loan that money for profit, just like a normal bank. Does anything like this exist?

I was actually thinking about something like this, but it's more like a bank. You can put refined metal in "the bank" and it gains interest. In return, the bank owners can loan that money for profit, just like a normal bank. Does anything like this exist?
15
#15
5 Frags +
chiveI was actually thinking about something like this, but it's more like a bank. You can put refined metal in "the bank" and it gains interest. In return, the bank owners can loan that money for profit, just like a normal bank. Does anything like this exist?

Nah, and there won't be anything like this. Imagine how hard it will be to get the metal back from people.

[quote=chive]I was actually thinking about something like this, but it's more like a bank. You can put refined metal in "the bank" and it gains interest. In return, the bank owners can loan that money for profit, just like a normal bank. Does anything like this exist?[/quote]
Nah, and there won't be anything like this. Imagine how hard it will be to get the metal back from people.
16
#16
3 Frags +

A possibility that you might look into for betting is spread betting, where people bet on the margin of victory instead of the victor itself. It would help encourage betting in games with a clear favorite to win.

On the side you could also have over-under bets on match stats like damage totals, frags, Uber drops, etc.

A possibility that you might look into for betting is spread betting, where people bet on the margin of victory instead of the victor itself. It would help encourage betting in games with a clear favorite to win.

On the side you could also have over-under bets on match stats like damage totals, frags, Uber drops, etc.
17
#17
2 Frags +

Looks good!
Any chance there's any ESEA or UGC NA?

Looks good!
Any chance there's any ESEA or UGC NA?
18
#18
2 Frags +

Yeah, there will be NA

Yeah, there will be NA
19
#19
11 Frags +

Just do the betting percentages and everything like it's done on csgo lounge. Also thank you so much for making this, csgo lounge insanely raised the numbers of viewers for the csgo match streams and hopefully this can do the same for tf2. This could be really really successful and boost the stream views by a ton but for it to work people need to step up and cast multiple matches a night not just one a week, the people betting want something to watch that isnt just an stv.

Just do the betting percentages and everything like it's done on csgo lounge. Also thank you so much for making this, csgo lounge insanely raised the numbers of viewers for the csgo match streams and hopefully this can do the same for tf2. This could be really really successful and boost the stream views by a ton but for it to work people need to step up and cast multiple matches a night not just one a week, the people betting want something to watch that isnt just an stv.
20
#20
3 Frags +

I also hope that it'll show pubs competitive side of a game.
I will give you an update tommorow since I already turned off my computer.
Anyway I need to contact Scrap.TF so if any of you knows them please ask them if they could contact me. Unfortunately none of them is accepting my friend requests :/
My steam profile: http://steamcommunity.com/id/123Coke

I also hope that it'll show pubs competitive side of a game.
I will give you an update tommorow since I already turned off my computer.
Anyway I need to contact [b]Scrap.TF[/b] so if any of you knows them please ask them if they could contact me. Unfortunately none of them is accepting my friend requests :/
My steam profile: http://steamcommunity.com/id/123Coke
21
#21
4 Frags +

The issue with changing keys straight to metal is that people will be reluctant to deposit keys at all as they are pretty much on a constant rise. I would exchange them on bet rather than on deposit, so that people know that by having keys deposited they aren't losing value.

Other ideas:
Rosters come up if you click on a team maybe? Could help people see who they are betting on
Have a friends bar on the side where you can see how much your steam friends have lost/won recently, sort of like the duels thing you see on map change
Also maybe a scoreboard of biggest winners each week? Could encourage betters.
Allow comments on matches so people can shit talk about how they are gonna win big on this one

The issue with changing keys straight to metal is that people will be reluctant to deposit keys at all as they are pretty much on a constant rise. I would exchange them on bet rather than on deposit, so that people know that by having keys deposited they aren't losing value.

Other ideas:
Rosters come up if you click on a team maybe? Could help people see who they are betting on
Have a friends bar on the side where you can see how much your steam friends have lost/won recently, sort of like the duels thing you see on map change
Also maybe a scoreboard of biggest winners each week? Could encourage betters.
Allow comments on matches so people can shit talk about how they are gonna win big on this one
22
#22
1 Frags +
hazThe issue with changing keys straight to metal is that people will be reluctant to deposit keys at all as they are pretty much on a constant rise. I would exchange them on bet rather than on deposit, so that people know that by having keys deposited they aren't losing value.

It would be really awkward in my honest opinion, keys should either be bet(?) or they shouldn't be part of virtual inventory at all, and making a trade with keys buying bots when someone bets keys would also overcomplicate the process

hazOther ideas:
Rosters come up if you click on a team maybe?
Could help people see who they are betting on

That's not a bad idea.

hazHave a friends bar on the side where you can see how much your steam friends have lost/won recently, sort of like the duels thing you see on map change

This one could discourage betting if they see that they friends lost, I like this one much better:

hazAlso maybe a scoreboard of biggest winners each week? Could encourage betters.
Allow comments on matches so people can shit talk about how they are gonna win big on this one

How withdrawals work
Withdrawing item was very hard to design as Valve wants us to specify exact item that we want to trade rather than just any refined metal. This is real problem when two users want the same item and bot has to decline one trade so I had to implement some sort of queue like you can see on scrap.tf and other automated trading websites.
Bot could send offers himself, taking care of choosing correct items, but then users will need to give me their secret token and it makes the site overcomplicated, since I want signing up as easy as signing in.
So I decided to make withdrawal work the same way as deposit, you click on withdrawal button, establish connection with bot and when you reach first place in line you get Trade just like in the previous case. The only difference is that you need to select bots inventory and items that you want to get from him instead of giving him items from yours. If you select more than 2 items of the same kind (except refs), like 3 scraps or 4 recs your trade will be declined automatically, otherwise if you fit in 120 seconds timeframe your trade will get accepted.

[quote=haz]The issue with changing keys straight to metal is that people will be reluctant to deposit keys at all as they are pretty much on a constant rise. I would exchange them on bet rather than on deposit, so that people know that by having keys deposited they aren't losing value.[/quote]
It would be really awkward in my honest opinion, keys should either be bet(?) or they shouldn't be part of virtual inventory at all, and making a trade with keys buying bots when someone bets keys would also overcomplicate the process

[quote=haz]Other ideas:
Rosters come up if you click on a team maybe?
Could help people see who they are betting on[/quote]
That's not a bad idea.
[quote=haz]Have a friends bar on the side where you can see how much your steam friends have lost/won recently, sort of like the duels thing you see on map change[/quote]
This one could discourage betting if they see that they friends lost, I like this one much better:
[quote=haz]Also maybe a scoreboard of biggest winners each week? Could encourage betters.
Allow comments on matches so people can shit talk about how they are gonna win big on this one[/quote]

[b]How withdrawals work[/b]
Withdrawing item was very hard to design as Valve wants us to specify [b]exact[/b] item that we want to trade rather than just any refined metal. This is real problem when two users want the same item and bot has to decline one trade so I had to implement some sort of queue like you can see on scrap.tf and other automated trading websites.
Bot could send offers himself, taking care of choosing correct items, but then users will need to give me their secret token and it makes the site overcomplicated, since I want signing up as easy as signing in.
So I decided to make withdrawal work the same way as deposit, you click on withdrawal button, establish connection with bot and when you reach first place in line you get [b]Trade[/b] just like in the previous case. The only difference is that you need to select bots inventory and items that you want to get from him instead of giving him items from yours. If you select more than 2 items of the same kind (except refs), like 3 scraps or 4 recs your trade will be declined automatically, otherwise if you fit in 120 seconds timeframe your trade will get accepted.
23
#23
3 Frags +

Finally betting site!

Finally betting site!
24
#24
4 Frags +

There's easter and I am preparing a party for my 18th birthday so there hasn't been much progress, but before that I was working on the backend:
http://i.imgur.com/U2DozQT.png

There's easter and I am preparing a party for my 18th birthday so there hasn't been much progress, but before that I was working on the backend:
[url=http://i.imgur.com/U2DozQT.png][img]http://i.imgur.com/U2DozQT.png[/img][/url]
25
#25
3 Frags +

Bought VPS in Seattle propably in the same datacenter as Steam since I have 0.6-0.8 ms latency to steamcommunity.com servers :)

Bought VPS in Seattle propably in the same datacenter as Steam since I have 0.6-0.8 ms latency to steamcommunity.com servers :)
26
#26
1 Frags +

Just wanted to add that even though the server is in Seattle I set up a CDN for it.
If I'll be happy with CloudFlare and my project will get enough interest I'll propably buy PRO package, if not I will just buy VPSes in Amsterdam, Moscow and Singapore to deliver content like images or scripts.

Just wanted to add that even though the server is in Seattle I set up a CDN for it.
If I'll be happy with CloudFlare and my project will get enough interest I'll propably buy PRO package, if not I will just buy VPSes in Amsterdam, Moscow and Singapore to deliver content like images or scripts.
27
#27
16 Frags +

bump. wondering how this is going and stuff

bump. wondering how this is going and stuff
28
#28
-1 Frags +

when this happens im gonna get so much rares items

when this happens im gonna get so much [s]rares[/s] items
29
#29
2 Frags +

Looks rad, here's to hoping it all gets working properly!

Looks rad, here's to hoping it all gets working properly!
30
#30
1 Frags +

This looks cool

This looks cool
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