#61 1 2 0 Frags
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAsy-4kqK2w
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAsy-4kqK2w[/youtube]
#62 15 16 14 Frags
Finally EU wins something!!

EU tf2 casting scene > US tf2 casting scene

Now seriously, I think you guys need to get your shit together, vanilla tv has been doing a wonderful job and it grew exponentially the last year. I remember I subscribed to their YT channel only in February this year when they had about 500 subscribers, streams were topping at 150-300 viewers for big matches. Now here they are, 6k subscribers and increasing fast, 1k viewers on average, really big matches can get like 2k viewers and i46 was an amazing event with like 3-4k viewers average if I remember well, which is a ton for tf2 comp.

The way I see it, NA tf2 is missing a big opportunity, extv has literally 10 times the youtube subscriber base and yet your stream numbers are miserable, something obvious needs to be fixed, first of all what I think has really helped vanilla was moving from own3d to twitch and getting twitch tv frontpage consistently, John has been amazing supporting tf2 scene through twitch and you should really take that opportunity and get some front page love. I don't even know how this hasn't been done before.

Second as an avid tf2 comp player and fan, I really love to keep up with whats going on, vanilla has an awesome and very user intuitive site that let's you know what has been happening in the EU scene and what matches are going on or being casted. Extv is missing that, almost no match promotion whatsoever, the only announcement I get is trough the steam group which really is not enough, the site is not user intuitive at all, and there are no real updates there anyway. No wonder you're netting less than half of vanilla stream viewers even though you have 10 time the subscriber base.

NA casters are good, I love djc work on vanilla and other NA casters are really good as well, you just need to work together.

The problem isn't people streaming, sure vanilla casters are premier div players for the majority of them, but you don't need invite people casting to get viewers, your casters are just fine, what you need is a more efficient platform promoting the stream/casts whenever they happen, and people available to do so.

This is way offtopic but main point is, work together, work better, more efficient, I don't know all the details and maybe extine had a bad negotiation with esea, but you can't ignore the guy has put tons of work into the scene and has if anything gained enough status to be able to ask for something in return...
ESEA is obviously not the good kid here either, the growth the scene has seen, particularly in NA is not due to them that's for sure, the prizemoney hasn't increased, the exposure hasn't increased, the technical difficulties or disregard for tf2 has in fact increased, at least that the way I see it! And as a for profit and pay2play league and organization they should be doing way more for the scene that they are doing currently (next to nothing).
Finally EU wins something!!

EU tf2 casting scene > US tf2 casting scene

Now seriously, I think you guys need to get your shit together, vanilla tv has been doing a wonderful job and it grew exponentially the last year. I remember I subscribed to their YT channel only in February this year when they had about 500 subscribers, streams were topping at 150-300 viewers for big matches. Now here they are, 6k subscribers and increasing fast, 1k viewers on average, really big matches can get like 2k viewers and i46 was an amazing event with like 3-4k viewers average if I remember well, which is a ton for tf2 comp.

The way I see it, NA tf2 is missing a big opportunity, extv has literally 10 times the youtube subscriber base and yet your stream numbers are miserable, something obvious needs to be fixed, first of all what I think has really helped vanilla was moving from own3d to twitch and getting twitch tv frontpage consistently, John has been amazing supporting tf2 scene through twitch and you should really take that opportunity and get some front page love. I don't even know how this hasn't been done before.

Second as an avid tf2 comp player and fan, I really love to keep up with whats going on, vanilla has an awesome and very user intuitive site that let's you know what has been happening in the EU scene and what matches are going on or being casted. Extv is missing that, almost no match promotion whatsoever, the only announcement I get is trough the steam group which really is not enough, the site is not user intuitive at all, and there are no real updates there anyway. No wonder you're netting less than half of vanilla stream viewers even though you have 10 time the subscriber base.

NA casters are good, I love djc work on vanilla and other NA casters are really good as well, you just need to work together.

The problem isn't people streaming, sure vanilla casters are premier div players for the majority of them, but you don't need invite people casting to get viewers, your casters are just fine, what you need is a more efficient platform promoting the stream/casts whenever they happen, and people available to do so.


This is way offtopic but main point is, work together, work better, more efficient, I don't know all the details and maybe extine had a bad negotiation with esea, but you can't ignore the guy has put tons of work into the scene and has if anything gained enough status to be able to ask for something in return...
ESEA is obviously not the good kid here either, the growth the scene has seen, particularly in NA is not due to them that's for sure, the prizemoney hasn't increased, the exposure hasn't increased, the technical difficulties or disregard for tf2 has in fact increased, at least that the way I see it! And as a for profit and pay2play league and organization they should be doing way more for the scene that they are doing currently (next to nothing).
#63 22 23 21 Frags
I'm not quite sure I'll be able to add any insight to this, as I'm just hearing about it this morning, but I wanted to chime in.

One of the main reasons I took a step back from playing a role in eXtv and casting was because the community was so heavily fractured. Everyone was kind of doing their own thing and as much as we tried, there was just wasn't a huge amount of support for what eXtv was doing. The LAN fundraisers and i46 fundraisers were great, but ultimately they were a means to an end. The amount of time we put into what we do just wasn't worth what we were getting out of it, at least for me. There were weeks I, personally, put 40-50 hours into eXtv - including organization, casting and administration. I also work 50+ hours each week at my job that pays the bills. That's too much for what we're taking out of this. The level of support we get from sponsors and the league organizations is pathetic, as in none. Everybody wants us to keep casting their matches but nobody wants to support us. This isn't a cheap thing to do - I've personally invested probably $500-$1000 into my shit JUST to stream and cast.

The thing about eXtv is our goals have always been to grow TF2 for the community. We do our casts for free, we offer all our services for free, and we provide servers to the community (when they work) for free. We ask absolutely nothing of anyone. We don't sit in our streams and beg viewers for money, we're not pimping a sponsor, none of that - we're just bring you the game - yet we're constantly chastised left and right for the community for not doing enough. Well, where's the incentive? Making people happy is one thing - that's great, I know we all love bringing you guys the games... but I've never seen a "great job, eXtv" post. Ever. Never. Anywhere. Maybe that's a good thing, but I think that's more everyone just being complacent that we'll always be there. We'll always be casting.

What if it all just went away? What if Jeff finally got so fed up, he just woke up one morning and said 'fuck it' and shut it down? Well, the fact is somebody would just start casting in our place. It's completely interchangeable - and with the lack of competitive support from Valve, the lack of corporate sponsors, and the leagues themselves ambivalent to casting and streaming (they're going make all their money regardless) this game isn't exactly setup to benefit from what we're doing. Anybody can cast and stream - our advantage is we're established and organized, but as MGE proved, anybody can do it... we've just gotten good at sticking around.

Anyway, I'm not sure the point of all this, maybe just venting. It's shitty what ESEA did, especially after we spent 2 months working with them to work out the specifics of us casting for them, trying to get 1 or 2 of our people on-site to cast on Orange for them, and finally agreeing to do our own thing (mutually, I do believe) and then all of a sudden they've grabbed the guys we were planning on having our stream. I understand it, it's a business decision, but it also shows a complete lack of integrity, and in my opinion, just further support the somewhat scumbag image towards the community that has been festering around ESEA for some time now. I'm really glad I'm not as directly involved with this stuff as I used to be, because chances are this would have been a lot more hostile - but the fact of the matter is this was a shady decision built around the guise of 'doing good' for the community, when in fact it's just a money grab.
I'm not quite sure I'll be able to add any insight to this, as I'm just hearing about it this morning, but I wanted to chime in.

One of the main reasons I took a step back from playing a role in eXtv and casting was because the community was so heavily fractured. Everyone was kind of doing their own thing and as much as we tried, there was just wasn't a huge amount of support for what eXtv was doing. The LAN fundraisers and i46 fundraisers were great, but ultimately they were a means to an end. The amount of time we put into what we do just wasn't worth what we were getting out of it, at least for me. There were weeks I, personally, put 40-50 hours into eXtv - including organization, casting and administration. I also work 50+ hours each week at my job that pays the bills. That's too much for what we're taking out of this. The level of support we get from sponsors and the league organizations is pathetic, as in none. Everybody wants us to keep casting their matches but nobody wants to support us. This isn't a cheap thing to do - I've personally invested probably $500-$1000 into my shit JUST to stream and cast.

The thing about eXtv is our goals have always been to grow TF2 for the community. We do our casts for free, we offer all our services for free, and we provide servers to the community (when they work) for free. We ask absolutely nothing of anyone. We don't sit in our streams and beg viewers for money, we're not pimping a sponsor, none of that - we're just bring you the game - yet we're constantly chastised left and right for the community for not doing enough. Well, where's the incentive? Making people happy is one thing - that's great, I know we all love bringing you guys the games... but I've never seen a "great job, eXtv" post. Ever. Never. Anywhere. Maybe that's a good thing, but I think that's more everyone just being complacent that we'll always be there. We'll always be casting.

What if it all just went away? What if Jeff finally got so fed up, he just woke up one morning and said 'fuck it' and shut it down? Well, the fact is somebody would just start casting in our place. It's completely interchangeable - and with the lack of competitive support from Valve, the lack of corporate sponsors, and the leagues themselves ambivalent to casting and streaming (they're going make all their money regardless) this game isn't exactly setup to benefit from what we're doing. Anybody can cast and stream - our advantage is we're established and organized, but as MGE proved, anybody can do it... we've just gotten good at sticking around.

Anyway, I'm not sure the point of all this, maybe just venting. It's shitty what ESEA did, especially after we spent 2 months working with them to work out the specifics of us casting for them, trying to get 1 or 2 of our people on-site to cast on Orange for them, and finally agreeing to do our own thing (mutually, I do believe) and then all of a sudden they've grabbed the guys we were planning on having our stream. I understand it, it's a business decision, but it also shows a complete lack of integrity, and in my opinion, just further support the somewhat scumbag image towards the community that has been festering around ESEA for some time now. I'm really glad I'm not as directly involved with this stuff as I used to be, because chances are this would have been a lot more hostile - but the fact of the matter is this was a shady decision built around the guise of 'doing good' for the community, when in fact it's just a money grab.
#64 8 9 7 Frags
I think that US events in general will always get less viewers than EU, simply because of time zones. EU casts are watchable at reasonable hours by spectators from Europe, and daytime US, but not Asia/Aus. US casts are watchable at reasonable hours by spectators from US, daytime Asia/Aus, but not Europe. But still, we are only talking about small numbers anyway, so maybe this doesn't really factor as much as it suggests it would.

The bigger issue with casting, is that the casual players aren't watching us. The non-tf2 players aren't yet watching us, and the competitive players are all playing at the time of a broadcast. I don't know if you still used fixed match times over there, but when I was playing in the US, all the teams were playing on the same day, at the same time. That means most of your target audience, can't watch the games.

If anything, both of our communities need to get some sort of... out of hours shows going on. Casted vod replays in the late hours of the evening so people can watch games once they are done playing. The show matches are great for the growth of TF2, but sometimes I swear I see more people watching an individual's stream at 1am, than I do watching the same individual's stream at match time.
I think that US events in general will always get less viewers than EU, simply because of time zones. EU casts are watchable at reasonable hours by spectators from Europe, and daytime US, but not Asia/Aus. US casts are watchable at reasonable hours by spectators from US, daytime Asia/Aus, but not Europe. But still, we are only talking about small numbers anyway, so maybe this doesn't really factor as much as it suggests it would.

The bigger issue with casting, is that the casual players aren't watching us. The non-tf2 players aren't yet watching us, and the competitive players are all playing at the time of a broadcast. I don't know if you still used fixed match times over there, but when I was playing in the US, all the teams were playing on the same day, at the same time. That means most of your target audience, can't watch the games.

If anything, both of our communities need to get some sort of... out of hours shows going on. Casted vod replays in the late hours of the evening so people can watch games once they are done playing. The show matches are great for the growth of TF2, but sometimes I swear I see more people watching an individual's stream at 1am, than I do watching the same individual's stream at match time.
#65 –7 –6 –8 Frags
I thought this dealt with ESEA-O
I thought this dealt with ESEA-O
#66 –10 –9 –11 Frags
Summary of video please?
Summary of video please?
#67 4 5 3 Frags
Both sides have done some shady stuff stuff here but i think the issue is that this shouldn't have gone on behind extines back. Should have discussed it with him before making any decision.

Whats done is done. The least he deserves is a public apology from everyone involved and then lets move on to the actual event.
Both sides have done some shady stuff stuff here but i think the issue is that this shouldn't have gone on behind extines back. Should have discussed it with him before making any decision.

Whats done is done. The least he deserves is a public apology from everyone involved and then lets move on to the actual event.
#68 –4 –3 –5 Frags
wow what a load of bullshit
this is what i've gathered
extv is a business
extine wants esea partnership for $$$
esea says lol no
mge guys decide to help esea with their tf2 cast because better exposure
extine mad because people aren't helping him grow his business(extv)
extine trying to guilt trip with his cute "im just trying to grow & unite the community together" when it's clear that he just wants to grow his business


Bingo. I was just telling someone last night pretty much the exact same thing. All comes down to money.
[quote=hooli]wow what a load of bullshit
this is what i've gathered
extv is a business
extine wants esea partnership for $$$
esea says lol no
mge guys decide to help esea with their tf2 cast because better exposure
extine mad because people aren't helping him grow his business(extv)
extine trying to guilt trip with his cute "im just trying to grow & unite the community together" when it's clear that he just wants to grow his business[/quote]

Bingo. I was just telling someone last night pretty much the exact same thing. All comes down to money.
#69 19 20 18 Frags
From Enigma:
please reserve judgement until someone talks about this on a stream

I'm not trying to dig up hate for these guys. I think what they did was completely unprofessional, but I don't hate anyone personally. I'm not sure what "misconceptions" someone else talking on a stream will solve, send me a highlight cuz I prolly won't be tuned in.

From DJC:
The opportunity to cast on ESEA Orange was always there, it was just dismissed due to reasons that are not entirely clear to me and were not really made any clearer by my brief discussion with Extine
This will be my last post on the topic since I laid out my opinion about as clearly as I could, but as far as I am aware and from what the ESEA guys said to us in our discussions tonight, it was always on the table for EXTV to cast the ESEA LAN off-site on the Orange stream. They were apparently willing to provide compensation similar to the compensation that EXTV got for casting last season's LAN as an online only thing, but that option was presumably declined by EXTV.

Why was I so pissed off and couldn't get any sleep last night? Because all of this was so avoidable!!

Really, I'm finding out about these feelings from casters who gave me a verbal thumbs up now? 4 days from the event? I publicly posted 2 weeks ago what our plan was, and MY reasoning with ESEA. NOBODY piped up with: "Hey how come you guys don't just work together with ESEA"? Had these guys maybe actually talked to me about it and raised the issue, We could have had a nice polite conversation and perhaps changed our gameplan, TOGETHER.

This shit creates so much division, which is another reason it pisses me off. Sorry to air dirty Laundry, but my viewers need to be informed about the casting change. Some drama shouldn't be swept under the rug.

ESEA didn't offer to provide any compensation for us doing the LAN as an online only thing. The fact of the matter is that what we suggested, myself and cbear being flown out and compensation for Mikal, was cheaper than our contract last season.

I honestly don't know if eXtv will be casting this LAN now, I need to process all the feedback and see how all my crew is feeling.

I got new computer parts coming in, which will let me stream on my own equipment, and a list of other projects I'd like to work on this weekend. Considering all this, it's pretty tempting to go out disc golfing Saturday Morning.
From Enigma:
[quote]please reserve judgement until someone talks about this on a stream[/quote]

I'm not trying to dig up hate for these guys. I think what they did was completely unprofessional, but I don't hate anyone personally. I'm not sure what "misconceptions" someone else talking on a stream will solve, send me a highlight cuz I prolly won't be tuned in.

From DJC:
[quote]The opportunity to cast on ESEA Orange was always there, it was just dismissed due to reasons that are not entirely clear to me and were not really made any clearer by my brief discussion with Extine[/quote]
[quote]This will be my last post on the topic since I laid out my opinion about as clearly as I could, but as far as I am aware and from what the ESEA guys said to us in our discussions tonight, it was always on the table for EXTV to cast the ESEA LAN off-site on the Orange stream. They were apparently willing to provide compensation similar to the compensation that EXTV got for casting last season's LAN as an online only thing, but that option was presumably declined by EXTV.[/quote]

Why was I so pissed off and couldn't get any sleep last night? Because all of this was so avoidable!!

Really, I'm finding out about these feelings from casters who gave me a verbal thumbs up now? 4 days from the event? I publicly posted 2 weeks ago what our plan was, and MY reasoning with ESEA. NOBODY piped up with: "Hey how come you guys don't just work together with ESEA"? Had these guys maybe actually talked to me about it and raised the issue, We could have had a nice polite conversation and perhaps changed our gameplan, TOGETHER.

This shit creates so much division, which is another reason it pisses me off. Sorry to air dirty Laundry, but my viewers need to be informed about the casting change. Some drama shouldn't be swept under the rug.

ESEA didn't offer to provide any compensation for us doing the LAN as an online only thing. The fact of the matter is that what we suggested, myself and cbear being flown out and compensation for Mikal, was cheaper than our contract last season.

I honestly don't know if eXtv will be casting this LAN now, I need to process all the feedback and see how all my crew is feeling.

I got new computer parts coming in, which will let me stream on my own equipment, and a list of other projects I'd like to work on this weekend. Considering all this, it's pretty tempting to go out disc golfing Saturday Morning.
#70 22 23 21 Frags
Bingo. I was just telling someone last night pretty much the exact same thing. All comes down to money.

It does come down to money.

If Lange is running camera for ESEA for 12 hours, I want him to get paid.
[quote]Bingo. I was just telling someone last night pretty much the exact same thing. All comes down to money.[/quote]

It does come down to money.

If Lange is running camera for ESEA for 12 hours, I want him to get paid.
#71 0 1 –1 Frags
@eXtine. From your previous post, the message I got from it was that since negotiations fell through due to their budget situation, there was no way to get eXtv casters on the ESEA orange lan, be it offline or online. From that, if I found out that "oh, ESEA is actually willing to let us onto the ESEA orange stream online" when what it seems you told them was "there's no way to get onto an ESEA sponsored stream" (based on djc's posts in this thread) then it should be natural for them to be like "wait a second, the opportunity to cast on the ESEA orange stream was hidden from us and we feel like it's a better avenue to reach more viewers, why don't we do that".
@eXtine. From your previous post, the message I got from it was that since negotiations fell through due to their budget situation, there was no way to get eXtv casters on the ESEA orange lan, be it offline or online. From that, if I found out that "oh, ESEA is actually willing to let us onto the ESEA orange stream online" when what it seems you told them was "there's no way to get onto an ESEA sponsored stream" (based on djc's posts in this thread) then it should be natural for them to be like "wait a second, the opportunity to cast on the ESEA orange stream was hidden from us and we feel like it's a better avenue to reach more viewers, why don't we do that".
#72 5 6 4 Frags
I don't want to take any sides in this (yet?); I respect Extine and the eXtv crew hugely, and I have equal respect for the individual casters.

What I'd like to see is Extine and the casters discussing this in a private mumble or Steam chat, together, then coming back to us with a final statement on what happened and how it happened. I understand that might be hard to ask for in the middle of the week, but I feel like it would be better than posts spread amongst pages of a tf.tv thread. I really want to chalk this up as a breakdown in communications, and not hang on to some conspiracy that the casters intentionally avoided telling Extine.

Also want to hear ESEA's position, because to me it seems they told Extine one thing, and something else to djc and co.
I don't want to take any sides in this (yet?); I respect Extine and the eXtv crew hugely, and I have equal respect for the individual casters.

What I'd like to see is Extine and the casters discussing this in a private mumble or Steam chat, together, then coming back to us with a final statement on what happened and how it happened. I understand that might be hard to ask for in the middle of the week, but I feel like it would be better than posts spread amongst pages of a tf.tv thread. I really want to chalk this up as a breakdown in communications, and not hang on to some conspiracy that the casters intentionally avoided telling Extine.

Also want to hear ESEA's position, because to me it seems they told Extine one thing, and something else to djc and co.
#73 10 11 9 Frags
Bingo. I was just telling someone last night pretty much the exact same thing. All comes down to money.

It does come down to money.

If Lange is running camera for ESEA for 12 hours, I want him to get paid.
I'll just give Lange a $50 Papa John's Gift Card or something
[quote=eXtine][quote]Bingo. I was just telling someone last night pretty much the exact same thing. All comes down to money.[/quote]

It does come down to money.

If Lange is running camera for ESEA for 12 hours, I want him to get paid.[/quote] I'll just give Lange a $50 Papa John's Gift Card or something
#74 1 2 0 Frags
Extine:
I'm not trying to dig up hate for these guys. I think what they did was completely unprofessional, but I don't hate anyone personally. I'm not sure what "misconceptions" someone else talking on a stream will solve, send me a highlight cuz I prolly won't be tuned in.


You calling us unprofessional while posting a video like that is hilariously hypocritical.
Extine:
[quote]I'm not trying to dig up hate for these guys. I think what they did was completely unprofessional, but I don't hate anyone personally. I'm not sure what "misconceptions" someone else talking on a stream will solve, send me a highlight cuz I prolly won't be tuned in.
[/quote]

You calling us unprofessional while posting a video like that is hilariously hypocritical.
#75 4 5 3 Frags
Bingo. I was just telling someone last night pretty much the exact same thing. All comes down to money.

It does come down to money.

If Lange is running camera for ESEA for 12 hours, I want him to get paid.
I'll just give Lange a $50 Papa John's Gift Card or something


Fog just helping out! I'll donate a medium pie to someone whose casting for hours and hours over the weekend if needed.
[quote=Fog][quote=eXtine][quote]Bingo. I was just telling someone last night pretty much the exact same thing. All comes down to money.[/quote]

It does come down to money.

If Lange is running camera for ESEA for 12 hours, I want him to get paid.[/quote] I'll just give Lange a $50 Papa John's Gift Card or something[/quote]

Fog just helping out! I'll donate a medium pie to someone whose casting for hours and hours over the weekend if needed.
#76 11 12 10 Frags
It sucks that ESEA wouldn't pay the casters to do the stream.

It sucks that nobody talked to extine about the change before agreeing to it, especially after they were expected to help him out.

It sucks that extine got really upset about it (which is understandable) and made a girly vlog to complain about it (this is less understandable).

Bottom line is, it's sucky situation all around. The relationship with ESEA has always been one of necessity and not choice; we always have some issue with ESEA not supporting us enough, but we also don't have an alternative option. It's dumb that ESEA Orange is our best chance of getting exposure, because they have all of the power.

While I agree with extine that it's awful to let them push the community around, I also agree with the casters in that cooperation is the only way to grow the game. On that same note, I think it was a pretty big party foul to go behind extine's back when the casters already commit to teaming up, but it's also not something to deal with publicly first.
It sucks that ESEA wouldn't pay the casters to do the stream.

It sucks that nobody talked to extine about the change before agreeing to it, especially after they were expected to help him out.

It sucks that extine got really upset about it (which is understandable) and made a girly vlog to complain about it (this is less understandable).


Bottom line is, it's sucky situation all around. The relationship with ESEA has always been one of necessity and not choice; we always have some issue with ESEA not supporting us enough, but we also don't have an alternative option. It's dumb that ESEA Orange is our best chance of getting exposure, because they have all of the power.

While I agree with extine that it's awful to let them push the community around, I also agree with the casters in that cooperation is the only way to grow the game. On that same note, I think it was a pretty big party foul to go behind extine's back when the casters already commit to teaming up, but it's also not something to deal with publicly first.
#77 6 7 5 Frags
So wait: this is all just a misunderstanding of Extine's original intentions? How the fuck is this a topic for drama, and why is it happening right now, so close to the event? This isn't even anyone's business but that of the casters. Discuss it together in private like adults, argue for and against the reasoning of Extine with Extine, come to a conclusion that guarantees the only thing the public cares about: that the LAN is casted by these wonderful people and it's a good product. All speculation of potential viewer numbers, half-baked approximations of "the lesson to be learned" by ESEA, or which platform is better for the game needed to happen way earlier, and now they are useful only with regard to the S13 LAN.
So wait: this is all just a misunderstanding of Extine's original intentions? How the fuck is this a topic for drama, and why is it happening right now, so close to the event? This isn't even anyone's business but that of the casters. Discuss it together in private like adults, argue for and against the reasoning of Extine with Extine, come to a conclusion that guarantees the [i]only thing[/i] the public cares about: that the LAN is casted by these wonderful people and it's a good product. All speculation of potential viewer numbers, half-baked approximations of "the lesson to be learned" by ESEA, or which platform is better for the game needed to happen way earlier, and now they are useful only with regard to the S13 LAN.
#78 9 10 8 Frags
The NA TF2 scene needs eXtv. We also need all of these casters. Most importantly, we need them together. gg wp

Fog just helping out! I'll donate a medium pie to someone whose casting for hours and hours over the weekend if needed.
I'd be down to buy a pizza for somebody that's casting/streaming LAN as well, from whichever side of the fence. Hit me up if you're hungry.
The NA TF2 scene needs eXtv. We also need all of these casters. Most importantly, we need them [b]together[/b]. gg wp

[quote=tragic]Fog just helping out! I'll donate a medium pie to someone whose casting for hours and hours over the weekend if needed.[/quote]
I'd be down to buy a pizza for somebody that's casting/streaming LAN as well, from whichever side of the fence. Hit me up if you're hungry.
#79 11 12 10 Frags
Lange will be getting compensated for the 12 hours of camera work he does this weekend, whether it be done by ESEA or myself.
Lange will be getting compensated for the 12 hours of camera work he does this weekend, whether it be done by ESEA or myself.
#80 12 13 11 Frags
I don't get why people who aren't involved in this "conflict" are butt hurt at all

You are benefiting from a FREE service which those people will provide to you regardless of whom they are involved it. And what if seanbud promotes his stream? Are you saying it's wrong that he wants to promote TF2 since his channel consists mostly of TF2 related content?

Whatever the story is behind this (I can't comment on how they handled this situation because I have no idea), I'm glad they took the chance to promote this LAN to a bigger audience.

Regarding Vanilla offering better services, instead of shitting on our casting services which traveled all the way to EU to combine forces with your casters, maybe you could lend a hand and help improve them so everyone can benefit from them.

Also for anyone interested, I will create threads on both ETF2L/TF.TV providing casting information (mumble, etc), STV's, match times and brackets and update them as soon as they are available on ESEA.
I don't get why people who aren't involved in this "conflict" are butt hurt at all

You are benefiting from a FREE service which those people will provide to you regardless of whom they are involved it. And what if seanbud promotes his stream? Are you saying it's wrong that he wants to promote TF2 since his channel consists mostly of TF2 related content?

Whatever the story is behind this (I can't comment on how they handled this situation because I have no idea), I'm glad they took the chance to promote this LAN to a bigger audience.

Regarding Vanilla offering better services, instead of shitting on our casting services which traveled all the way to EU to combine forces with your casters, maybe you could lend a hand and help improve them so everyone can benefit from them.

Also for anyone interested, I will create threads on both ETF2L/TF.TV providing casting information (mumble, etc), STV's, match times and brackets and update them as soon as they are available on ESEA.
#81 –12 –11 –13 Frags
I don't see why people are acting like TF2 will "grow" if we just get more exposure on twitch.tv or ESEA or whatever. 99% of twitch viewers have no interest in TF2. 90% are there to watch a completely different type of game - SC2, LoL or Dota 2. Of the people in this community, how many do you think watched competitive TF2 before they started to play the game at even a pub level? The target audience is people who play TF2 but don't know comp exists, don't know streams exist, and don't know ESEA exists, and because of that it doesn't matter at all whether or not you cast on the ESEA stream.
I don't see why people are acting like TF2 will "grow" if we just get more exposure on twitch.tv or ESEA or whatever. 99% of twitch viewers have no interest in TF2. 90% are there to watch a completely different type of game - SC2, LoL or Dota 2. Of the people in this community, how many do you think watched competitive TF2 before they started to play the game at even a pub level? The target audience is people who play TF2 but don't know comp exists, don't know streams exist, and don't know ESEA exists, and because of that it doesn't matter at all whether or not you cast on the ESEA stream.
#82 5 6 4 Frags
lol what
lol what

To revise my previous post: it has come to my attention that the crew casting on ESEA will be compensated for their work. This being the case changes the entire situation, as it shifts from ESEA refusing to pay to extine refusing to negotiate.

Whatever the reasons may be, my points still stand: it was shady for people to go behind extine's back, and it's suckish of extine to turn this into a public cluster.
[quote=atreides]lol what[/quote]
lol what

To revise my previous post: it has come to my attention that the crew casting on ESEA will be compensated for their work. This being the case changes the entire situation, as it shifts from ESEA refusing to pay to extine refusing to negotiate.

Whatever the reasons may be, my points still stand: it was shady for people to go behind extine's back, and it's suckish of extine to turn this into a public cluster.
#83 1 2 0 Frags
This is off topic, but i have to ask. Duder what caused you to clock 40-50 hours a week for eXtv? I mean I've gone quake con quite a few times(like 5-6) and i chill out with the LAN organizers sometimes etc etc. And they'll clock like 60 hours, and well they're literally setting up a whole LAN.

What is taking upto 50 for eXtv?
This is off topic, but i have to ask. Duder what caused you to clock 40-50 hours a week for eXtv? I mean I've gone quake con quite a few times(like 5-6) and i chill out with the LAN organizers sometimes etc etc. And they'll clock like 60 hours, and well they're literally setting up a whole LAN.

What is taking upto 50 for eXtv?
#84 2 3 1 Frags

I'd be down to buy a pizza for somebody that's casting/streaming LAN as well, from whichever side of the fence. Hit me up if you're hungry.

Me too. We should start a TF.TV pizza/pie drive for the casters.
[quote=frkn]
I'd be down to buy a pizza for somebody that's casting/streaming LAN as well, from whichever side of the fence. Hit me up if you're hungry.[/quote]
Me too. We should start a TF.TV pizza/pie drive for the casters.
#85 4 5 3 Frags
#randomactsofpapajohns
#randomactsofpapajohns
#86 2 3 1 Frags
It seems like you (eXtine) thought you had a hard yes from the people that were involved, when really they were just thinking about it, or were willing to do it unless something else came along. It is shitty that they didn't give you a heads up but I think in the long run they realize that even though ESEA is as shitty as a business organization gets, they are still currently the best way to get big exposure for tf2. At the very least they put the stream up on their website that gets a lot of views. I kind of get why you are upset but you should think about this beyond extv. The orange stream will get more viewers that aren't tf2 people, you share that goal of getting the game exposure.

Posting this video was kind of stupid though. You are a good guy and you work really hard at what you do eXtine. But usually you wanna sleep on it before posting a video about something you are so angry about, whether or not that anger is just or not.
It seems like you (eXtine) thought you had a hard yes from the people that were involved, when really they were just thinking about it, or were willing to do it unless something else came along. It is shitty that they didn't give you a heads up but I think in the long run they realize that even though ESEA is as shitty as a business organization gets, they are still currently the best way to get big exposure for tf2. At the very least they put the stream up on their website that gets a lot of views. I kind of get why you are upset but you should think about this beyond extv. The orange stream will get more viewers that aren't tf2 people, you share that goal of getting the game exposure.

Posting this video was kind of stupid though. You are a good guy and you work really hard at what you do eXtine. But usually you wanna sleep on it before posting a video about something you are so angry about, whether or not that anger is just or not.
#87 –24 –23 –25 Frags
When are you idiots going to realize that this game has reached its growth potential? Seriously, esea doesn't care because this game brings little to no money to them. There is a reason why their servers are utter garbage and they don't bother fixing it or provide adequate compensation for lan teams (compared to other games). The only reason esea even offers tf2 is probably because they don't want any other competition developing which allows them to have a monolpoly over the "online gaming market" (LOL). And why should they care about tf2? TF2 is a 5-6 year old game that never had the amount of exposure or enough players to ever compete with 1.6, css, etc. The game is fun which is why I play it, but thinking that this game is going to just explode into css or something is laughable. Have realistic expectations and stop living in a fantasy world. later nerds
When are you idiots going to realize that this game has reached its growth potential? Seriously, esea doesn't care because this game brings little to no money to them. There is a reason why their servers are utter garbage and they don't bother fixing it or provide adequate compensation for lan teams (compared to other games). The only reason esea even offers tf2 is probably because they don't want any other competition developing which allows them to have a monolpoly over the "online gaming market" (LOL). And why should they care about tf2? TF2 is a 5-6 year old game that never had the amount of exposure or enough players to ever compete with 1.6, css, etc. The game is fun which is why I play it, but thinking that this game is going to just explode into css or something is laughable. Have realistic expectations and stop living in a fantasy world. later nerds
#88 7 8 6 Frags
When are you idiots going to realize that this game has reached its growth potential? Seriously, esea doesn't care because this game brings little to no money to them. There is a reason why their servers are utter garbage and they don't bother fixing it or provide adequate compensation for lan teams (compared to other games). The only reason esea even offers tf2 is probably because they don't want any other competition developing which allows them to have a monolpoly over the "online gaming market" (LOL). And why should they care about tf2? TF2 is a 5-6 year old game that never had the amount of exposure or enough players to ever compete with 1.6, css, etc. The game is fun which is why I play it, but thinking that this game is going to just explode into css or something is laughable. Have realistic expectations and stop living in a fantasy world. later nerds
Why is TF2 the top spectated game at LAN every single time than?
[quote=Cool_Breeze]When are you idiots going to realize that this game has reached its growth potential? Seriously, esea doesn't care because this game brings little to no money to them. There is a reason why their servers are utter garbage and they don't bother fixing it or provide adequate compensation for lan teams (compared to other games). The only reason esea even offers tf2 is probably because they don't want any other competition developing which allows them to have a monolpoly over the "online gaming market" (LOL). And why should they care about tf2? TF2 is a 5-6 year old game that never had the amount of exposure or enough players to ever compete with 1.6, css, etc. The game is fun which is why I play it, but thinking that this game is going to just explode into css or something is laughable. Have realistic expectations and stop living in a fantasy world. later nerds[/quote]
Why is TF2 the top spectated game at LAN every single time than?
#89 18 19 17 Frags
When are you idiots going to realize that this game has reached its growth potential? Seriously, esea doesn't care because this game brings little to no money to them. There is a reason why their servers are utter garbage and they don't bother fixing it or provide adequate compensation for lan teams (compared to other games). The only reason esea even offers tf2 is probably because they don't want any other competition developing which allows them to have a monolpoly over the "online gaming market" (LOL). And why should they care about tf2? TF2 is a 5-6 year old game that never had the amount of exposure or enough players to ever compete with 1.6, css, etc. The game is fun which is why I play it, but thinking that this game is going to just explode into css or something is laughable. Have realistic expectations and stop living in a fantasy world. later nerds
[quote=Cool_Breeze]When are you idiots going to realize that this game has reached its growth potential? Seriously, esea doesn't care because this game brings little to no money to them. There is a reason why their servers are utter garbage and they don't bother fixing it or provide adequate compensation for lan teams (compared to other games). The only reason esea even offers tf2 is probably because they don't want any other competition developing which allows them to have a monolpoly over the "online gaming market" (LOL). And why should they care about tf2? TF2 is a 5-6 year old game that never had the amount of exposure or enough players to ever compete with 1.6, css, etc. The game is fun which is why I play it, but thinking that this game is going to just explode into css or something is laughable. Have realistic expectations and stop living in a fantasy world. later nerds[/quote]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/anjVk.png[/IMG]
#90 –17 –16 –18 Frags
why does tf2 struggle to get 4 teams to lan every season? but then games like css get 8 there easily?
why does tf2 struggle to get 4 teams to lan every season? but then games like css get 8 there easily?
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