#1
Frags 13
Let's use Dox's template for feedback in this thread based on the PUGs you have played.

-----

Who played:
--Blue:
----Scout: [div/name]
----Soldier: [div/name]
----Pyro: [div/name]
----Demoman: [div/name]
----Heavy: [div/name]
----Engineer: [div/name]
----Medic: [div/name]
----Sniper: [div/name]
----Spy: [div/name]
--Red:
----Scout: [div/name]
----Soldier: [div/name]
----Pyro: [div/name]
----Demoman: [div/name]
----Heavy: [div/name]
----Engineer: [div/name]
----Medic: [div/name]
----Sniper: [div/name]
----Spy: [div/name]
When played: [dd/mm/yy hh:mm]
Weapon bans enforced:
Formalized outcome: [Red: X Blue: Y]
Things to keep:
Things to alter:
Notes:
[link to STV demo]
Let's use Dox's template for feedback in this thread based on the PUGs you have played.

-----

Who played:
--Blue:
----Scout: [div/name]
----Soldier: [div/name]
----Pyro: [div/name]
----Demoman: [div/name]
----Heavy: [div/name]
----Engineer: [div/name]
----Medic: [div/name]
----Sniper: [div/name]
----Spy: [div/name]
--Red:
----Scout: [div/name]
----Soldier: [div/name]
----Pyro: [div/name]
----Demoman: [div/name]
----Heavy: [div/name]
----Engineer: [div/name]
----Medic: [div/name]
----Sniper: [div/name]
----Spy: [div/name]
When played: [dd/mm/yy hh:mm]
Weapon bans enforced:
Formalized outcome: [Red: X Blue: Y]
Things to keep:
Things to alter:
Notes:
[link to STV demo]
#2 0 1 –1 Frags
Make sure you use the "Notes" section for collecting player feedback, like how much fun they thought it was or wasn't.
Make sure you use the "Notes" section for collecting player feedback, like how much fun they thought it was or wasn't.
#3 0 1 –1 Frags
AAR?
AAR?
#4 6 7 5 Frags
After-Action Report.
After-Action Report.
#5 2 3 1 Frags
If you're targeting Highlander players I'd recommend you post this on UGC, ETF2L and CEVO to get their attention. Pretty much everyone here prefers 6v6
If you're targeting Highlander players I'd recommend you post this on UGC, ETF2L and CEVO to get their attention. Pretty much everyone here prefers 6v6
#6 2 3 1 Frags
If you're targeting Highlander players I'd recommend you post this on UGC, ETF2L and CEVO to get their attention. Pretty much everyone here prefers 6v6

A reddit thread would also be good
[quote=Droidster]If you're targeting Highlander players I'd recommend you post this on UGC, ETF2L and CEVO to get their attention. Pretty much everyone here prefers 6v6[/quote]


A reddit thread would also be good
#7 4 5 3 Frags
I just played in one, it went really well.

Who played:
--Blue:
----Scout: [?/The301stSpartan]
----Soldier: [?/Ultraz]
----Pyro: [UGC NA Silver/Florist]
----Demoman: [UGC NA Gold/arch]
----Heavy: [UGC NA Gold/paals]
----Engineer: [UGC NA Plat/Argo]
----Medic: [UGC NA Steel?/Xplayer]
----Sniper: [?/Alleal]
----Spy: [UGC NA Silver/polar]
--Red:
----Scout: [NA UGC Silver/SilentDom]
----Soldier: [UGC NA Silver/Shay]
----Pyro: [UGC NA Steel/SAAM!]
----Demoman: [UGC NA Plat/messiah]
----Heavy: [UGC NA Silver/A Brick Wall]
----Engineer: [UGC NA Gold/TriAft]
----Medic: [UGC NA Steel?/EternalReach]
----Sniper: [UGC NA Plat/Jordan]
----Spy: [UGC NA Plat/phorofor]
When played: [4/6/13 9:30PM EST]

Weapon bans enforced: Each team banned 4 weapons: Phlogistinator, razorback, jarate, pomson, flare gun, gunboats, dead ringer, and wrangler.

Formalized outcome: [Red: 2 Blue: 3]
Things to keep: I think there was a general consensus that certain bans improved gameplay such as the DR, pomson, phlog, wrangler.

Things to alter: Some weapons that many agreed should've been banned weren't (i.e. vita-saw). Trying out banning a different number of weapons/different banning processes would be a good idea.

Notes: Not sure about the divs, and I know some players weren't playing their main.
I'll have to ask about the STV, but 2 PUGs were streamed (Heavy POV) on the maps badwater and viaduct at http://www.twitch.tv/paals/b/412693982. The picking process, discussion about bans, and mumble comms are included.
The PUGs were organized in this group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/PickPugs

Logs: http://logs.tf/45234

*edit: fixed some divs
I just played in one, it went really well.

Who played:
--Blue:
----Scout: [?/The301stSpartan]
----Soldier: [?/Ultraz]
----Pyro: [UGC NA Silver/Florist]
----Demoman: [UGC NA Gold/arch]
----Heavy: [UGC NA Gold/paals]
----Engineer: [UGC NA Plat/Argo]
----Medic: [UGC NA Steel?/Xplayer]
----Sniper: [?/Alleal]
----Spy: [UGC NA Silver/polar]
--Red:
----Scout: [NA UGC Silver/SilentDom]
----Soldier: [UGC NA Silver/Shay]
----Pyro: [UGC NA Steel/SAAM!]
----Demoman: [UGC NA Plat/messiah]
----Heavy: [UGC NA Silver/A Brick Wall]
----Engineer: [UGC NA Gold/TriAft]
----Medic: [UGC NA Steel?/EternalReach]
----Sniper: [UGC NA Plat/Jordan]
----Spy: [UGC NA Plat/phorofor]
When played: [4/6/13 9:30PM EST]

Weapon bans enforced: Each team banned 4 weapons: Phlogistinator, razorback, jarate, pomson, flare gun, gunboats, dead ringer, and wrangler.

Formalized outcome: [Red: 2 Blue: 3]
Things to keep: I think there was a general consensus that certain bans improved gameplay such as the DR, pomson, phlog, wrangler.

Things to alter: Some weapons that many agreed should've been banned weren't (i.e. vita-saw). Trying out banning a different number of weapons/different banning processes would be a good idea.

Notes: Not sure about the divs, and I know some players weren't playing their main.
I'll have to ask about the STV, but 2 PUGs were streamed (Heavy POV) on the maps badwater and viaduct at http://www.twitch.tv/paals/b/412693982. The picking process, discussion about bans, and mumble comms are included.
The PUGs were organized in this group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/PickPugs

Logs: http://logs.tf/45234

*edit: fixed some divs
#8 2 3 1 Frags
I was in that pug^
Who played:
--Blue:
----Scout: [?/The301stSpartan]
----Soldier: [?/Ultraz]
----Pyro: [UGC NA Silver/Florist]
----Demoman: [UGC NA Gold/arch]
----Heavy: [UGC NA Gold/paals]
----Engineer: [UGC NA Plat/Argo]
----Medic: [UGC NA Steel?/Xplayer]
----Sniper: [?/Alleal]
----Spy: [UGC NA Silver/polar]
--Red:
----Scout: [?/SilentDom]
----Soldier: [UGC NA Silver/Shay]
----Pyro: [UGC NA Silver?/SAAM!]
----Demoman: [UGC NA Plat/messiah]
----Heavy: [UGC NA Silver/A Brick Wall]
----Engineer: [UGC NA Gold/TriAft]
----Medic: [UGC NA Steel?/EternalReach]
----Sniper: [UGC NA Plat/Jordan]
----Spy: [UGC NA Plat/phorofor]
When played: [4/6/13 9:30PM EST]

Weapon bans enforced: Each team banned 4 weapons: Phlogistinator, razorback, jarate, pomson, flare gun, gunboats, dead ringer, and wrangler.

Formalized outcome: [Red: 2 Blue: 3]
Things to keep: I think there was a general consensus that certain bans improved gameplay such as the DR, pomson, phlog, wrangler.

Things to alter: Some weapons that many agreed should've been banned weren't (i.e. vita-saw). Trying out banning a different number of weapons/different banning processes would be a good idea.


Notes:
I can confirm that minis altered the way I had to play scout on viaduct significantly.
When I spotted an engineer, he would throw a defensive minisentry in front of me. Since usually a scout/sniper/pyro were nearby when this happened I had to take out all three before the mini was built and could shoot me down, which is very hard when not at full health. Alternatively I could go for the mini and quickly retreat and reload, to then come back and harass the running engineer.

However, I would not call it completely broken. I would have preferred not to play socut against it but there was pretty much always a different spot not guarded by the sentry that I could be useful at. Since the pocket pistol/atomizer combo was not banned, I had sufficient HP to deal with sentries and the mobility to get away from one that was being built in front of me. I don't believe this scout set to be completely OP either, at least not in HL where the scout is not the most powerful class anyway.

A useful minisentry strat seemed to be to have a heavy behind/near the building engineer on mid to prevent a pyro or scout from rushing it down before it is built. When no heavy was around I could usually deal with the sentries.

From what I saw the vita-saw was extremely good. Aside from that, I did not miss any of the weapons that were banned either. I believe the gunboats could have been in with no proble, though.

All in all a very fun pug. Will probably be playing again tomorrow.

EDIT: I would like to add that generally I found the pick/ban system to be very, very fun. I could even imagine something similar in 6s. It adds a completely new layer of preparation to the game where strategic decisions are made already before the game starts (using bans to nerf key enemy players).
I was in that pug^
[quote]Who played:
--Blue:
----Scout: [?/The301stSpartan]
----Soldier: [?/Ultraz]
----Pyro: [UGC NA Silver/Florist]
----Demoman: [UGC NA Gold/arch]
----Heavy: [UGC NA Gold/paals]
----Engineer: [UGC NA Plat/Argo]
----Medic: [UGC NA Steel?/Xplayer]
----Sniper: [?/Alleal]
----Spy: [UGC NA Silver/polar]
--Red:
----Scout: [?/SilentDom]
----Soldier: [UGC NA Silver/Shay]
----Pyro: [UGC NA Silver?/SAAM!]
----Demoman: [UGC NA Plat/messiah]
----Heavy: [UGC NA Silver/A Brick Wall]
----Engineer: [UGC NA Gold/TriAft]
----Medic: [UGC NA Steel?/EternalReach]
----Sniper: [UGC NA Plat/Jordan]
----Spy: [UGC NA Plat/phorofor]
When played: [4/6/13 9:30PM EST]

Weapon bans enforced: Each team banned 4 weapons: Phlogistinator, razorback, jarate, pomson, flare gun, gunboats, dead ringer, and wrangler.

Formalized outcome: [Red: 2 Blue: 3]
Things to keep: I think there was a general consensus that certain bans improved gameplay such as the DR, pomson, phlog, wrangler.

Things to alter: Some weapons that many agreed should've been banned weren't (i.e. vita-saw). Trying out banning a different number of weapons/different banning processes would be a good idea.
[/quote]

Notes:
I can confirm that minis altered the way I had to play scout on viaduct significantly.
When I spotted an engineer, he would throw a defensive minisentry in front of me. Since usually a scout/sniper/pyro were nearby when this happened I had to take out all three before the mini was built and could shoot me down, which is very hard when not at full health. Alternatively I could go for the mini and quickly retreat and reload, to then come back and harass the running engineer.

However, I would not call it completely broken. I would have preferred not to play socut against it but there was pretty much always a different spot not guarded by the sentry that I could be useful at. Since the pocket pistol/atomizer combo was not banned, I had sufficient HP to deal with sentries and the mobility to get away from one that was being built in front of me. I don't believe this scout set to be completely OP either, at least not in HL where the scout is not the most powerful class anyway.

A useful minisentry strat seemed to be to have a heavy behind/near the building engineer on mid to prevent a pyro or scout from rushing it down before it is built. When no heavy was around I could usually deal with the sentries.

From what I saw the vita-saw was extremely good. Aside from that, I did not miss any of the weapons that were banned either. I believe the gunboats could have been in with no proble, though.

All in all a very fun pug. Will probably be playing again tomorrow.


EDIT: I would like to add that generally I found the pick/ban system to be very, very fun. I could even imagine something similar in 6s. It adds a completely new layer of preparation to the game where strategic decisions are made already before the game starts (using bans to nerf key enemy players).
#9 1 2 0 Frags
I just played in one, it went really well.

Who played:
--Blue:
----Scout: [?/The301stSpartan]
----Soldier: [?/Ultraz]
----Pyro: [UGC NA Silver/Florist]
----Demoman: [UGC NA Gold/arch]
----Heavy: [UGC NA Gold/paals]
----Engineer: [UGC NA Plat/Argo]
----Medic: [UGC NA Steel?/Xplayer]
----Sniper: [?/Alleal]
----Spy: [UGC NA Silver/polar]
--Red:
----Scout: [?/SilentDom]
----Soldier: [UGC NA Silver/Shay]
----Pyro: [UGC NA Silver?/SAAM!]
----Demoman: [UGC NA Plat/messiah]
----Heavy: [UGC NA Silver/A Brick Wall]
----Engineer: [UGC NA Gold/TriAft]
----Medic: [UGC NA Steel?/EternalReach]
----Sniper: [UGC NA Plat/Jordan]
----Spy: [UGC NA Plat/phorofor]
When played: [4/6/13 9:30PM EST]

Weapon bans enforced: Each team banned 4 weapons: Phlogistinator, razorback, jarate, pomson, flare gun, gunboats, dead ringer, and wrangler.

Formalized outcome: [Red: 2 Blue: 3]
Things to keep: I think there was a general consensus that certain bans improved gameplay such as the DR, pomson, phlog, wrangler.

Things to alter: Some weapons that many agreed should've been banned weren't (i.e. vita-saw). Trying out banning a different number of weapons/different banning processes would be a good idea.

Notes: Not sure about the divs, and I know some players weren't playing their main.
I'll have to ask about the STV, but 2 PUGs were streamed (Heavy POV) on the maps badwater and viaduct at http://www.twitch.tv/paals/b/412693982. The picking process, discussion about bans, and mumble comms are included.
The PUGs were organized in this group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/PickPugs

Logs: http://logs.tf/45234


Also played in this, xposting relevant section from another post:

You attempt to restrict your opponents strongest players by relegating them to weapons they may not be as effective/familiar with. My team called bans on Jarate and Razorback immediately because the other team's sniper was HL plat, under the assumption that I wouldn't be able to control him. They were right, pretty much. Anyways, it gave our spy the option to focus their sniper a lot more than he could without the bans.

I expect to see weapons like Wrangler, DR, Jarate, and Vita Saw to be the most frequent bans. This is because these weapons aren't skill indexed. Nobody is 'good' at throwing jarate, or aiming the wrangler. They're basically ever present features of the match, that are good for one player and bad for eight. So they'll be very common bans, for the sake of the other eight players. The only exception to that rule is the DR, but with in it's current state it functions as a non-skill indexed weapon in a lot of situations.

---

Despite all of the above, it didn't result in any exciting, game changing strats that I could see. This might have been because it's KOTH, but I think it's because we spent all our bans on the shitty, badly designed, and annoying weapons, with two notable exceptions being the Flare Gun and Gunboats (which were mostly for experimental purposes anyways). Banning stock weapons is pretty much out of the question, because it assumes that all players have alternatives when they might not.
[quote=Polar_]I just played in one, it went really well.

Who played:
--Blue:
----Scout: [?/The301stSpartan]
----Soldier: [?/Ultraz]
----Pyro: [UGC NA Silver/Florist]
----Demoman: [UGC NA Gold/arch]
----Heavy: [UGC NA Gold/paals]
----Engineer: [UGC NA Plat/Argo]
----Medic: [UGC NA Steel?/Xplayer]
----Sniper: [?/Alleal]
----Spy: [UGC NA Silver/polar]
--Red:
----Scout: [?/SilentDom]
----Soldier: [UGC NA Silver/Shay]
----Pyro: [UGC NA Silver?/SAAM!]
----Demoman: [UGC NA Plat/messiah]
----Heavy: [UGC NA Silver/A Brick Wall]
----Engineer: [UGC NA Gold/TriAft]
----Medic: [UGC NA Steel?/EternalReach]
----Sniper: [UGC NA Plat/Jordan]
----Spy: [UGC NA Plat/phorofor]
When played: [4/6/13 9:30PM EST]

Weapon bans enforced: Each team banned 4 weapons: Phlogistinator, razorback, jarate, pomson, flare gun, gunboats, dead ringer, and wrangler.

Formalized outcome: [Red: 2 Blue: 3]
Things to keep: I think there was a general consensus that certain bans improved gameplay such as the DR, pomson, phlog, wrangler.

Things to alter: Some weapons that many agreed should've been banned weren't (i.e. vita-saw). Trying out banning a different number of weapons/different banning processes would be a good idea.

Notes: Not sure about the divs, and I know some players weren't playing their main.
I'll have to ask about the STV, but 2 PUGs were streamed (Heavy POV) on the maps badwater and viaduct at http://www.twitch.tv/paals/b/412693982. The picking process, discussion about bans, and mumble comms are included.
The PUGs were organized in this group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/PickPugs

Logs: http://logs.tf/45234[/quote]

Also played in this, xposting relevant section from another post:

[quote]You attempt to restrict your opponents strongest players by relegating them to weapons they may not be as effective/familiar with. My team called bans on Jarate and Razorback immediately because the other team's sniper was HL plat, under the assumption that I wouldn't be able to control him. They were right, pretty much. Anyways, it gave our spy the option to focus their sniper a lot more than he could without the bans.

I expect to see weapons like Wrangler, DR, Jarate, and Vita Saw to be the most frequent bans. This is because these weapons aren't skill indexed. Nobody is 'good' at throwing jarate, or aiming the wrangler. They're basically ever present features of the match, that are good for one player and bad for eight. So they'll be very common bans, for the sake of the other eight players. The only exception to that rule is the DR, but with in it's current state it functions as a non-skill indexed weapon in a lot of situations.

---

Despite all of the above, it didn't result in any exciting, game changing strats that I could see. This might have been because it's KOTH, but I think it's because we spent all our bans on the shitty, badly designed, and annoying weapons, with two notable exceptions being the Flare Gun and Gunboats (which were mostly for experimental purposes anyways). Banning stock weapons is pretty much out of the question, because it assumes that all players have alternatives when they might not.[/quote]
#10 3 4 2 Frags
For people that are looking for people in this pug, hit me up!
For people that are looking for people in this pug, hit me up!
#11 2 3 1 Frags
Who played:
--Blue:
----Scout: [?/The301stSpartan]
----Soldier: [?/Ultraz]
----Pyro: [UGC NA Silver/Florist]
----Demoman: [UGC NA Gold/arch]
----Heavy: [UGC NA Gold/paals]
----Engineer: [UGC NA Plat/Argo]
----Medic: [UGC NA Steel?/Xplayer]
----Sniper: [?/Alleal]
----Spy: [UGC NA Silver/polar]
--Red:
----Scout: [?/SilentDom]
----Soldier: [UGC NA Silver/Shay]
----Pyro: [UGC NA Silver?/SAAM!]
----Demoman: [UGC NA Plat/messiah]
----Heavy: [UGC NA Silver/A Brick Wall]
----Engineer: [UGC NA Gold/TriAft]
----Medic: [UGC NA Steel?/EternalReach]
----Sniper: [UGC NA Plat/Jordan]
----Spy: [UGC NA Plat/phorofor]
When played: [4/6/13 9:30PM EST]


I was in this one as well. To touch up a couple of facts on it, SAAM! is in Steel, SilentDom is in NA Silver with me on ttp, and Eternal is in Iron. That's really about it! To talk about how the game went without Gunboats, well. It basically removed my role as a Roamer. Jumping was difficult and hard to do if you didn't have a buff, and what ended up happening was the Soldier playing the role of the Pocket, ending up with 34% of the Medic's heal spread with the Demo. This also works well with the strategy of the Battalion's Backup being used in KoTH, which I ended up running. The best example of a fully negated Kritz on the stream, would be at 2:38:55, where the Heavy gets the Kritz and our team wins a push because of it.

Getting a Batallion's Backup on Viaduct was extremely easy. Engineers that place their minis on or near the point will allow a Soldier to build it without a hassle. Our team didn't have too much of a flanking problem, and that's because Viaduct is a pretty small map. Overall, I think that if the Battalion's Backup gains some more popularity and a little bit of improvement Strategy-wise, it could become the next "Vhalin Black Box Strat." I would like to see how well it fares on other KoTH maps, like Lakeside or Arctic, but we can test that tomorrow.
[quote]Who played:
--Blue:
----Scout: [?/The301stSpartan]
----Soldier: [?/Ultraz]
----Pyro: [UGC NA Silver/Florist]
----Demoman: [UGC NA Gold/arch]
----Heavy: [UGC NA Gold/paals]
----Engineer: [UGC NA Plat/Argo]
----Medic: [UGC NA Steel?/Xplayer]
----Sniper: [?/Alleal]
----Spy: [UGC NA Silver/polar]
--Red:
----Scout: [?/SilentDom]
----Soldier: [UGC NA Silver/Shay]
----Pyro: [UGC NA Silver?/SAAM!]
----Demoman: [UGC NA Plat/messiah]
----Heavy: [UGC NA Silver/A Brick Wall]
----Engineer: [UGC NA Gold/TriAft]
----Medic: [UGC NA Steel?/EternalReach]
----Sniper: [UGC NA Plat/Jordan]
----Spy: [UGC NA Plat/phorofor]
When played: [4/6/13 9:30PM EST][/quote]

I was in this one as well. To touch up a couple of facts on it, SAAM! is in Steel, SilentDom is in NA Silver with me on ttp, and Eternal is in Iron. That's really about it! To talk about how the game went without Gunboats, well. It basically removed my role as a Roamer. Jumping was difficult and hard to do if you didn't have a buff, and what ended up happening was the Soldier playing the role of the Pocket, [url=www.logs.tf/45234]ending up with 34% of the Medic's heal spread with the Demo.[/url] This also works well with the strategy of the Battalion's Backup being used in KoTH, which I ended up running. The best example of a fully negated Kritz on the stream, would be [url=www.twitch.tv/paals/b/412693982]at 2:38:55[/url], where the Heavy gets the Kritz and our team wins a push because of it.

Getting a Batallion's Backup on Viaduct was extremely easy. Engineers that place their minis on or near the point will allow a Soldier to build it without a hassle. Our team didn't have too much of a flanking problem, and that's because Viaduct is a pretty small map. Overall, I think that if the Battalion's Backup gains some more popularity and a little bit of improvement Strategy-wise, it could become the next "Vhalin Black Box Strat." I would like to see how well it fares on other KoTH maps, like Lakeside or Arctic, but we can test that tomorrow.
#12 5 6 4 Frags
Actually, since you and eXtine made all this possible, Saladmancer, how about you cast one or two of our pugs, if you have some spare time, and comment on all the sick new strats we find? I'm sure that stream would explode in viewers since valvecomp is the new big thing atm. It would also get a lot more people into the group so pugs cann be setup even easier in the future.

RETIRING IS BORING, COMP WITH BUFF BANNER IS FUN!
Actually, since you and eXtine made all this possible, Saladmancer, how about you cast one or two of our pugs, if you have some spare time, and comment on all the sick new strats we find? I'm sure that stream would explode in viewers since valvecomp is [b]the[/b] new big thing atm. It would also get a lot more people into the group so pugs cann be setup even easier in the future.

[spoiler]RETIRING IS BORING, COMP WITH BUFF BANNER IS FUN![/spoiler]
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