i can't wait to see the conga rollouts to mid
MAJOR TF2 update for 6/18/14 (6/19/14, Love & War)
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
Has anyone tried the Scottish Resistance out now in a pug/lobby/etc with stock nerfed? Is it now a viable alternative or do you still think it's going to go unloved?
Has anyone tried the Scottish Resistance out now in a pug/lobby/etc with stock nerfed? Is it now a viable alternative or do you still think it's going to go unloved?
The thing that really confuses me is why did Valve pick now to nerf the sticky launcher? The answer seems to pretty much be the parachute, but the game is 7 years old and the game was well understood. From about just before i46 until about just after i49, class balance never really changed much, new unlocks/changes to existing weapons didn't really have a massive impact to how the game was played and you could see the impact it had, strategies and gamesense were at a better point than ever, when the game has remained roughly constant for that long, you have to concentrate on the smaller deficiencies in your play to get the edge. And now that's gone in an instant. Someone commented earlier about how no one would be complaining if this had happened 6 months after the initial release of the game and that's right, it would have been OK then, people would have adapted and 7 years worth of strategies and gamesense would have been built on that. Now it's back to square one with everyone learning.
What I would be interested to see is the reaction of people who currently support the update if it were to be reverted.
The thing that really confuses me is why did Valve pick now to nerf the sticky launcher? The answer seems to pretty much be the parachute, but the game is 7 years old and the game was well understood. From about just before i46 until about just after i49, class balance never really changed much, new unlocks/changes to existing weapons didn't really have a massive impact to how the game was played and you could see the impact it had, strategies and gamesense were at a better point than ever, when the game has remained roughly constant for that long, you have to concentrate on the smaller deficiencies in your play to get the edge. And now that's gone in an instant. Someone commented earlier about how no one would be complaining if this had happened 6 months after the initial release of the game and that's right, it would have been OK then, people would have adapted and 7 years worth of strategies and gamesense would have been built on that. Now it's back to square one with everyone learning.
What I would be interested to see is the reaction of people who currently support the update if it were to be reverted.
What I would be interested to see is the reaction of people who currently support the update if it were to be reverted.
AvastExquisiteStoneAvastWARHURYEAHIt's early days, I'm going to try a few things and see what can be worked out. We tried heavy today as we felt it would be hard to kill the heavy and be more stable for the team. It probably won't be a constant showing until we try more stuff.
There's a potential that the demoman could be a utility class, this doesn't upset me that much as I love playing this game anyway and I enjoy playing all classes.
I understand people being mad as it's VERY frustrating to play at the moment because we have all been used to the same thing for 7+ years.
I think it points to how ridiculous this update was for demo if top teams are actually considering running a heavy to mid instead of a demo.
Stickies needed to be nerfed, and the game needed to change.
But if the concept of demo being so useless as to run pyro or heavy to mid not is not ridiculous, you really need to reevaluate what you want from this game.
How about people are overreacting?? Demo isn't worse then heavy on nearly every map, but if you'd have read better you would know it was viadcut, a very small map which was demo's domain, now you just have to predict better (2 sec ahead) Pipes still work the same, and if I'm really honest I barely notice the nerf, syncing stickies is a skill more people need to learn now more than ever.
Lets run through a scenario then.
One team runs heavy to mid, the other demo. Heavy fully overhealed has 450 hp, and although nerfed, can spin up and start putting down some hitscan laserbeam damage.
The demo has 260 health when fully overhealed, and if he wanted to kill the heavy must use all 8 stickies, hoping they all did 50 damage each, or all four pipes with 1 to 2 stickies. But maybe he shouldn't focus the heavy since then his damage isn't focused on the other members of the opposing team. Well then the heavy roams free and as people know a fully buffed soldier bombing a fully buffed heavy on mid will generally lose. Same goes with scout.
So you have a monstrous, tanky laser beam class versus a lower health, lower damage class on mid, whose primary weapon is less predictable and harder to aim, while also having a clip size of four.
How is the heavy not better?
Edit: Oh and the whole sticky trap areal denial for mid is stupid since a) if you do that your damage is drastically reduced, allowing people to essentially get to point with full buffs b) most players that aren't terrible aren't just going to run into your sticky traps every mid and die, sticky traps are supposed to be used strategically to catch players and punish them,not make an easily avoided minefield around yourself on mid
You do realise that every map except Viaduct (which I said heavy was a better choice) has Height advantage for soldiers, you people think like demo is the only player on this mid fight.
[quote=Avast][quote=ExquisiteStone][quote=Avast][quote=WARHURYEAH]It's early days, I'm going to try a few things and see what can be worked out. We tried heavy today as we felt it would be hard to kill the heavy and be more stable for the team. It probably won't be a constant showing until we try more stuff.
There's a potential that the demoman could be a utility class, this doesn't upset me that much as I love playing this game anyway and I enjoy playing all classes.
I understand people being mad as it's VERY frustrating to play at the moment because we have all been used to the same thing for 7+ years.[/quote]
I think it points to how ridiculous this update was for demo if top teams are actually considering running a heavy to mid instead of a demo.
Stickies needed to be nerfed, and the game needed to change.
But if the concept of demo being so useless as to run pyro or heavy to mid not is not ridiculous, you really need to reevaluate what you want from this game.[/quote]
How about people are overreacting?? Demo isn't worse then heavy on nearly every map, but if you'd have read better you would know it was viadcut, a very small map which [i][u]was[/u][/i] demo's domain, now you just have to predict better (2 sec ahead) Pipes still work the same, and if I'm really honest I barely notice the nerf, syncing stickies is a skill more people need to learn now more than ever.[/quote]
Lets run through a scenario then.
One team runs heavy to mid, the other demo. Heavy fully overhealed has 450 hp, and although nerfed, can spin up and start putting down some hitscan laserbeam damage.
The demo has 260 health when fully overhealed, and if he wanted to kill the heavy must use all 8 stickies, hoping they all did 50 damage each, or all four pipes with 1 to 2 stickies. But maybe he shouldn't focus the heavy since then his damage isn't focused on the other members of the opposing team. Well then the heavy roams free and as people know a fully buffed soldier bombing a fully buffed heavy on mid will generally lose. Same goes with scout.
So you have a monstrous, tanky laser beam class versus a lower health, lower damage class on mid, whose primary weapon is less predictable and harder to aim, while also having a clip size of four.
How is the heavy not better?
Edit: Oh and the whole sticky trap areal denial for mid is stupid since a) if you do that your damage is drastically reduced, allowing people to essentially get to point with full buffs b) most players that aren't terrible aren't just going to run into your sticky traps every mid and die, sticky traps are supposed to be used strategically to catch players and punish them,not make an easily avoided minefield around yourself on mid[/quote]
You do realise that every map except Viaduct (which I said heavy was a better choice) has Height advantage for soldiers, you people think like demo is the only player on this mid fight.
There's a potential that the demoman could be a utility class, this doesn't upset me that much as I love playing this game anyway and I enjoy playing all classes.
I understand people being mad as it's VERY frustrating to play at the moment because we have all been used to the same thing for 7+ years.[/quote]
I think it points to how ridiculous this update was for demo if top teams are actually considering running a heavy to mid instead of a demo.
Stickies needed to be nerfed, and the game needed to change.
But if the concept of demo being so useless as to run pyro or heavy to mid not is not ridiculous, you really need to reevaluate what you want from this game.[/quote]
How about people are overreacting?? Demo isn't worse then heavy on nearly every map, but if you'd have read better you would know it was viadcut, a very small map which [i][u]was[/u][/i] demo's domain, now you just have to predict better (2 sec ahead) Pipes still work the same, and if I'm really honest I barely notice the nerf, syncing stickies is a skill more people need to learn now more than ever.[/quote]
Lets run through a scenario then.
One team runs heavy to mid, the other demo. Heavy fully overhealed has 450 hp, and although nerfed, can spin up and start putting down some hitscan laserbeam damage.
The demo has 260 health when fully overhealed, and if he wanted to kill the heavy must use all 8 stickies, hoping they all did 50 damage each, or all four pipes with 1 to 2 stickies. But maybe he shouldn't focus the heavy since then his damage isn't focused on the other members of the opposing team. Well then the heavy roams free and as people know a fully buffed soldier bombing a fully buffed heavy on mid will generally lose. Same goes with scout.
So you have a monstrous, tanky laser beam class versus a lower health, lower damage class on mid, whose primary weapon is less predictable and harder to aim, while also having a clip size of four.
How is the heavy not better?
Edit: Oh and the whole sticky trap areal denial for mid is stupid since a) if you do that your damage is drastically reduced, allowing people to essentially get to point with full buffs b) most players that aren't terrible aren't just going to run into your sticky traps every mid and die, sticky traps are supposed to be used strategically to catch players and punish them,not make an easily avoided minefield around yourself on mid[/quote]
You do realise that every map except Viaduct (which I said heavy was a better choice) has Height advantage for soldiers, you people think like demo is the only player on this mid fight.
Avast
Lets run through a scenario then.
One team runs heavy to mid, the other demo. Heavy fully overhealed has 450 hp, and although nerfed, can spin up and start putting down some hitscan laserbeam damage.
The demo has 260 health when fully overhealed, and if he wanted to kill the heavy must use all 8 stickies, hoping they all did 50 damage each, or all four pipes with 1 to 2 stickies. But maybe he shouldn't focus the heavy since then his damage isn't focused on the other members of the opposing team. Well then the heavy roams free and as people know a fully buffed soldier bombing a fully buffed heavy on mid will generally lose. Same goes with scout.
So you have a monstrous, tanky laser beam class versus a lower health, lower damage class on mid, whose primary weapon is less predictable and harder to aim, while also having a clip size of four.
How is the heavy not better?
Edit: Oh and the whole sticky trap areal denial for mid is stupid since a) if you do that your damage is drastically reduced, allowing people to essentially get to point with full buffs b) most players that aren't terrible aren't just going to run into your sticky traps every mid and die, sticky traps are supposed to be used strategically to catch players and punish them,not make an easily avoided minefield around yourself on mid
depending on the map the heavy will be too slow to mid and the other teams demo will have performed enough area denial (without pressure from an opposing demo it will be pretty easy to set up enough sticks without immediately detting for this to be effective) to win his team the mid
[quote=Avast]
Lets run through a scenario then.
One team runs heavy to mid, the other demo. Heavy fully overhealed has 450 hp, and although nerfed, can spin up and start putting down some hitscan laserbeam damage.
The demo has 260 health when fully overhealed, and if he wanted to kill the heavy must use all 8 stickies, hoping they all did 50 damage each, or all four pipes with 1 to 2 stickies. But maybe he shouldn't focus the heavy since then his damage isn't focused on the other members of the opposing team. Well then the heavy roams free and as people know a fully buffed soldier bombing a fully buffed heavy on mid will generally lose. Same goes with scout.
So you have a monstrous, tanky laser beam class versus a lower health, lower damage class on mid, whose primary weapon is less predictable and harder to aim, while also having a clip size of four.
How is the heavy not better?
Edit: Oh and the whole sticky trap areal denial for mid is stupid since a) if you do that your damage is drastically reduced, allowing people to essentially get to point with full buffs b) most players that aren't terrible aren't just going to run into your sticky traps every mid and die, sticky traps are supposed to be used strategically to catch players and punish them,not make an easily avoided minefield around yourself on mid[/quote]
depending on the map the heavy will be too slow to mid and the other teams demo will have performed enough area denial (without pressure from an opposing demo it will be pretty easy to set up enough sticks without immediately detting for this to be effective) to win his team the mid
Lets run through a scenario then.
One team runs heavy to mid, the other demo. Heavy fully overhealed has 450 hp, and although nerfed, can spin up and start putting down some hitscan laserbeam damage.
The demo has 260 health when fully overhealed, and if he wanted to kill the heavy must use all 8 stickies, hoping they all did 50 damage each, or all four pipes with 1 to 2 stickies. But maybe he shouldn't focus the heavy since then his damage isn't focused on the other members of the opposing team. Well then the heavy roams free and as people know a fully buffed soldier bombing a fully buffed heavy on mid will generally lose. Same goes with scout.
So you have a monstrous, tanky laser beam class versus a lower health, lower damage class on mid, whose primary weapon is less predictable and harder to aim, while also having a clip size of four.
How is the heavy not better?
Edit: Oh and the whole sticky trap areal denial for mid is stupid since a) if you do that your damage is drastically reduced, allowing people to essentially get to point with full buffs b) most players that aren't terrible aren't just going to run into your sticky traps every mid and die, sticky traps are supposed to be used strategically to catch players and punish them,not make an easily avoided minefield around yourself on mid[/quote]
depending on the map the heavy will be too slow to mid and the other teams demo will have performed enough area denial (without pressure from an opposing demo it will be pretty easy to set up enough sticks without immediately detting for this to be effective) to win his team the mid
freakinAvastdepending on the map the heavy will be too slow to mid and the other teams demo will have performed enough area denial (without pressure from an opposing demo it will be pretty easy to set up enough sticks without immediately detting for this to be effective) to win his team the mid
Lets run through a scenario then.
One team runs heavy to mid, the other demo. Heavy fully overhealed has 450 hp, and although nerfed, can spin up and start putting down some hitscan laserbeam damage.
The demo has 260 health when fully overhealed, and if he wanted to kill the heavy must use all 8 stickies, hoping they all did 50 damage each, or all four pipes with 1 to 2 stickies. But maybe he shouldn't focus the heavy since then his damage isn't focused on the other members of the opposing team. Well then the heavy roams free and as people know a fully buffed soldier bombing a fully buffed heavy on mid will generally lose. Same goes with scout.
So you have a monstrous, tanky laser beam class versus a lower health, lower damage class on mid, whose primary weapon is less predictable and harder to aim, while also having a clip size of four.
How is the heavy not better?
Edit: Oh and the whole sticky trap areal denial for mid is stupid since a) if you do that your damage is drastically reduced, allowing people to essentially get to point with full buffs b) most players that aren't terrible aren't just going to run into your sticky traps every mid and die, sticky traps are supposed to be used strategically to catch players and punish them,not make an easily avoided minefield around yourself on mid
That is true. Demo's mobility will still be an advantage over classes like Heavy or Pyro when it comes to getting to mid and does offer opportunities that running the other classes will not.
But with that in mind, it still does not change the fact that running a heavy to mid is much easier, and more effective than before, as opposed to running vanilla classes. With a changing meta plenty of mid strategies could be developed around them that makes them more viable, or just as viable, as running demo as it stand now.
[quote=freakin][quote=Avast]
Lets run through a scenario then.
One team runs heavy to mid, the other demo. Heavy fully overhealed has 450 hp, and although nerfed, can spin up and start putting down some hitscan laserbeam damage.
The demo has 260 health when fully overhealed, and if he wanted to kill the heavy must use all 8 stickies, hoping they all did 50 damage each, or all four pipes with 1 to 2 stickies. But maybe he shouldn't focus the heavy since then his damage isn't focused on the other members of the opposing team. Well then the heavy roams free and as people know a fully buffed soldier bombing a fully buffed heavy on mid will generally lose. Same goes with scout.
So you have a monstrous, tanky laser beam class versus a lower health, lower damage class on mid, whose primary weapon is less predictable and harder to aim, while also having a clip size of four.
How is the heavy not better?
Edit: Oh and the whole sticky trap areal denial for mid is stupid since a) if you do that your damage is drastically reduced, allowing people to essentially get to point with full buffs b) most players that aren't terrible aren't just going to run into your sticky traps every mid and die, sticky traps are supposed to be used strategically to catch players and punish them,not make an easily avoided minefield around yourself on mid[/quote]
depending on the map the heavy will be too slow to mid and the other teams demo will have performed enough area denial (without pressure from an opposing demo it will be pretty easy to set up enough sticks without immediately detting for this to be effective) to win his team the mid[/quote]
That is true. Demo's mobility will still be an advantage over classes like Heavy or Pyro when it comes to getting to mid and does offer opportunities that running the other classes will not.
But with that in mind, it still does not change the fact that running a heavy to mid is much easier, and more effective than before, as opposed to running vanilla classes. With a changing meta plenty of mid strategies could be developed around them that makes them more viable, or just as viable, as running demo as it stand now.
Lets run through a scenario then.
One team runs heavy to mid, the other demo. Heavy fully overhealed has 450 hp, and although nerfed, can spin up and start putting down some hitscan laserbeam damage.
The demo has 260 health when fully overhealed, and if he wanted to kill the heavy must use all 8 stickies, hoping they all did 50 damage each, or all four pipes with 1 to 2 stickies. But maybe he shouldn't focus the heavy since then his damage isn't focused on the other members of the opposing team. Well then the heavy roams free and as people know a fully buffed soldier bombing a fully buffed heavy on mid will generally lose. Same goes with scout.
So you have a monstrous, tanky laser beam class versus a lower health, lower damage class on mid, whose primary weapon is less predictable and harder to aim, while also having a clip size of four.
How is the heavy not better?
Edit: Oh and the whole sticky trap areal denial for mid is stupid since a) if you do that your damage is drastically reduced, allowing people to essentially get to point with full buffs b) most players that aren't terrible aren't just going to run into your sticky traps every mid and die, sticky traps are supposed to be used strategically to catch players and punish them,not make an easily avoided minefield around yourself on mid[/quote]
depending on the map the heavy will be too slow to mid and the other teams demo will have performed enough area denial (without pressure from an opposing demo it will be pretty easy to set up enough sticks without immediately detting for this to be effective) to win his team the mid[/quote]
That is true. Demo's mobility will still be an advantage over classes like Heavy or Pyro when it comes to getting to mid and does offer opportunities that running the other classes will not.
But with that in mind, it still does not change the fact that running a heavy to mid is much easier, and more effective than before, as opposed to running vanilla classes. With a changing meta plenty of mid strategies could be developed around them that makes them more viable, or just as viable, as running demo as it stand now.
freakinAvastdepending on the map the heavy will be too slow to mid and the other teams demo will have performed enough area denial (without pressure from an opposing demo it will be pretty easy to set up enough sticks without immediately detting for this to be effective) to win his team the mid
Lets run through a scenario then.
One team runs heavy to mid, the other demo. Heavy fully overhealed has 450 hp, and although nerfed, can spin up and start putting down some hitscan laserbeam damage.
The demo has 260 health when fully overhealed, and if he wanted to kill the heavy must use all 8 stickies, hoping they all did 50 damage each, or all four pipes with 1 to 2 stickies. But maybe he shouldn't focus the heavy since then his damage isn't focused on the other members of the opposing team. Well then the heavy roams free and as people know a fully buffed soldier bombing a fully buffed heavy on mid will generally lose. Same goes with scout.
So you have a monstrous, tanky laser beam class versus a lower health, lower damage class on mid, whose primary weapon is less predictable and harder to aim, while also having a clip size of four.
How is the heavy not better?
Edit: Oh and the whole sticky trap areal denial for mid is stupid since a) if you do that your damage is drastically reduced, allowing people to essentially get to point with full buffs b) most players that aren't terrible aren't just going to run into your sticky traps every mid and die, sticky traps are supposed to be used strategically to catch players and punish them,not make an easily avoided minefield around yourself on mid
Exactly this.
And people, come on, it's a tiny nerf, it really worries me that such a nice community like tf2's rages about something like this, not that you should care about how I feel about this, but I'm pretty disappointed.
[quote=freakin][quote=Avast]
Lets run through a scenario then.
One team runs heavy to mid, the other demo. Heavy fully overhealed has 450 hp, and although nerfed, can spin up and start putting down some hitscan laserbeam damage.
The demo has 260 health when fully overhealed, and if he wanted to kill the heavy must use all 8 stickies, hoping they all did 50 damage each, or all four pipes with 1 to 2 stickies. But maybe he shouldn't focus the heavy since then his damage isn't focused on the other members of the opposing team. Well then the heavy roams free and as people know a fully buffed soldier bombing a fully buffed heavy on mid will generally lose. Same goes with scout.
So you have a monstrous, tanky laser beam class versus a lower health, lower damage class on mid, whose primary weapon is less predictable and harder to aim, while also having a clip size of four.
How is the heavy not better?
Edit: Oh and the whole sticky trap areal denial for mid is stupid since a) if you do that your damage is drastically reduced, allowing people to essentially get to point with full buffs b) most players that aren't terrible aren't just going to run into your sticky traps every mid and die, sticky traps are supposed to be used strategically to catch players and punish them,not make an easily avoided minefield around yourself on mid[/quote]
depending on the map the heavy will be too slow to mid and the other teams demo will have performed enough area denial (without pressure from an opposing demo it will be pretty easy to set up enough sticks without immediately detting for this to be effective) to win his team the mid[/quote]
Exactly this.
And people, come on, it's a tiny nerf, it really worries me that such a nice community like tf2's rages about something like this, not that you should care about how I feel about this, but I'm pretty disappointed.
Lets run through a scenario then.
One team runs heavy to mid, the other demo. Heavy fully overhealed has 450 hp, and although nerfed, can spin up and start putting down some hitscan laserbeam damage.
The demo has 260 health when fully overhealed, and if he wanted to kill the heavy must use all 8 stickies, hoping they all did 50 damage each, or all four pipes with 1 to 2 stickies. But maybe he shouldn't focus the heavy since then his damage isn't focused on the other members of the opposing team. Well then the heavy roams free and as people know a fully buffed soldier bombing a fully buffed heavy on mid will generally lose. Same goes with scout.
So you have a monstrous, tanky laser beam class versus a lower health, lower damage class on mid, whose primary weapon is less predictable and harder to aim, while also having a clip size of four.
How is the heavy not better?
Edit: Oh and the whole sticky trap areal denial for mid is stupid since a) if you do that your damage is drastically reduced, allowing people to essentially get to point with full buffs b) most players that aren't terrible aren't just going to run into your sticky traps every mid and die, sticky traps are supposed to be used strategically to catch players and punish them,not make an easily avoided minefield around yourself on mid[/quote]
depending on the map the heavy will be too slow to mid and the other teams demo will have performed enough area denial (without pressure from an opposing demo it will be pretty easy to set up enough sticks without immediately detting for this to be effective) to win his team the mid[/quote]
Exactly this.
And people, come on, it's a tiny nerf, it really worries me that such a nice community like tf2's rages about something like this, not that you should care about how I feel about this, but I'm pretty disappointed.
I'd hardly call this nerf tiny if our meta could be shifting this drastically
I'd hardly call this nerf tiny if our meta could be shifting this drastically
ExquisiteStoneAnd people, come on, it's a tiny nerf, it really worries me that such a nice community like tf2's rages about something like this, not that you should care about how I feel about this, but I'm pretty disappointed.
ExquisiteStonetiny nerf
ExquisiteStonetiny
lol
[quote=ExquisiteStone]And people, come on, it's a tiny nerf, it really worries me that such a nice community like tf2's rages about something like this, not that you should care about how I feel about this, but I'm pretty disappointed.[/quote]
[quote=ExquisiteStone]tiny nerf[/quote]
[quote=ExquisiteStone]tiny[/quote]
lol
[quote=ExquisiteStone]tiny nerf[/quote]
[quote=ExquisiteStone]tiny[/quote]
lol
Look, It's a huge nerf if you were always that Spammy demo that didn't want to learn any other aspects of the class but that, so far I've barely noticed it, because I'm usually syncing stickies for more damage anyway. I use pipes more than stickies, and I like my traps & blocking hall ways/choke points, and now you're telling me all of this extremely strong stuff demo can do just as well as before, is a Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugeee meta game changing nerf, than you're lying to yourself, or you're stuck in the past and your old habbits.
Look, It's a huge nerf if you were always that Spammy demo that didn't want to learn any other aspects of the class but that, so far I've barely noticed it, because I'm usually syncing stickies for more damage anyway. I use pipes more than stickies, and I like my traps & blocking hall ways/choke points, and now you're telling me all of this extremely strong stuff demo can do just as well as before, is a Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugeee meta game changing nerf, than you're lying to yourself, or you're stuck in the past and your old habbits.
ExquisiteStoneLook, It's a huge nerf if you were always that Spammy demo that didn't want to learn any other aspects of the class but that, so far I've barely noticed it, because I'm usually syncing stickies for more damage anyway. I use pipes more than stickies, and I like my traps & blocking hall ways/choke points, and now you're telling me all of this extremely strong stuff demo can do just as well as before, is a Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugeee meta game changing nerf, than you're lying to yourself, or you're stuck in the past and your old habbits.
Ah yes, I'd forgotten about all those massive damage numbers you put up.
[quote=ExquisiteStone]Look, It's a huge nerf if you were always that Spammy demo that didn't want to learn any other aspects of the class but that, so far I've barely noticed it, because I'm usually syncing stickies for more damage anyway. I use pipes more than stickies, and I like my traps & blocking hall ways/choke points, and now you're telling me all of this extremely strong stuff demo can do just as well as before, is a Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugeee meta game changing nerf, than you're lying to yourself, or you're stuck in the past and your old habbits.[/quote]
Ah yes, I'd forgotten about all those massive damage numbers you put up.
Ah yes, I'd forgotten about all those massive damage numbers you put up.
ExquisiteStoneLook, It's a huge nerf if you were always that Spammy demo that didn't want to learn any other aspects of the class
Spamming was one of the biggest aspects of demoman and it isn't as easy as people make out otherwise anyone could just come and be a top demo. If you weren't using spam effectively you weren't a good demoman end of story. The other stuff was important yes, but if you couldn't put out that sticky spam when it was needed then you weren't doing your job as demoman.
And besides that, of course I'm stuck in my old habits. It's hard to get out of habits and mindsets that you've had for (in my case) 3 years in 2 days after an update.
[quote=ExquisiteStone]Look, It's a huge nerf if you were always that Spammy demo that didn't want to learn any other aspects of the class [/quote]
Spamming was one of the biggest aspects of demoman and it isn't as easy as people make out otherwise anyone could just come and be a top demo. If you weren't using spam effectively you weren't a good demoman end of story. The other stuff was important yes, but if you couldn't put out that sticky spam when it was needed then you weren't doing your job as demoman.
And besides that, of course I'm stuck in my old habits. It's hard to get out of habits and mindsets that you've had for (in my case) 3 years in 2 days after an update.
Spamming was one of the biggest aspects of demoman and it isn't as easy as people make out otherwise anyone could just come and be a top demo. If you weren't using spam effectively you weren't a good demoman end of story. The other stuff was important yes, but if you couldn't put out that sticky spam when it was needed then you weren't doing your job as demoman.
And besides that, of course I'm stuck in my old habits. It's hard to get out of habits and mindsets that you've had for (in my case) 3 years in 2 days after an update.
Rikachuhave you ever played against good scouts
Like a good scout could be stopped with stickies before the nerf, only thing that could save you at close range was your GL.
[quote=Rikachu]have you ever played against good scouts[/quote]
Like a good scout could be stopped with stickies before the nerf, only thing that could save you at close range was your GL.
Like a good scout could be stopped with stickies before the nerf, only thing that could save you at close range was your GL.
pipes will never put up the same damage as stickies, very simple
pipes will never put up the same damage as stickies, very simple
ExquisiteStoneRikachuhave you ever played against good scoutsLike a good scout could be stopped with stickies before the nerf, only thing that could save you at close range was your GL.
Have you played Team Fortress 2 before?
[quote=ExquisiteStone][quote=Rikachu]have you ever played against good scouts[/quote]
Like a good scout could be stopped with stickies before the nerf, only thing that could save you at close range was your GL.[/quote]
Have you played Team Fortress 2 before?
Like a good scout could be stopped with stickies before the nerf, only thing that could save you at close range was your GL.[/quote]
Have you played Team Fortress 2 before?
tl;dr
lots of really mad people who don't want to improve on how they play and want to keep playing the same old game forever.
This thread could probably be closed, I barely see anything that would help anyone or the game, including my own posts.
tl;dr
lots of really mad people who don't want to improve on how they play and want to keep playing the same old game forever.
This thread could probably be closed, I barely see anything that would help anyone or the game, including my own posts.
lots of really mad people who don't want to improve on how they play and want to keep playing the same old game forever.
This thread could probably be closed, I barely see anything that would help anyone or the game, including my own posts.
Arguments for the demo nerf:
45% - Stickies have been OP for a long time now and despite seeming like a crippling nerf, demo should be less important and lame now
45% - Stickies weren't necessarily OP but this nerf should spice up the metagame and make the game more exciting
10% yeah the demo nerf is pretty gay, but demo is a gay class so fuck that guy, fucking asshole
Arguments for the demo nerf:
45% - Stickies have been OP for a long time now and despite seeming like a crippling nerf, demo should be less important and lame now
45% - Stickies weren't necessarily OP but this nerf should spice up the metagame and make the game more exciting
10% yeah the demo nerf is pretty gay, but demo is a gay class so fuck that guy, fucking asshole
45% - Stickies have been OP for a long time now and despite seeming like a crippling nerf, demo should be less important and lame now
45% - Stickies weren't necessarily OP but this nerf should spice up the metagame and make the game more exciting
10% yeah the demo nerf is pretty gay, but demo is a gay class so fuck that guy, fucking asshole
http://www.valvesoftware.com/email.php
TF team is at the bottom if anyone still doesn't know their email. They actually do respond a decent amount of the time in my experience. (considering it's probably just one intern updating tf2 at this point). Sending them an essay will probably cause them to skip it but a couple sentences explaining how they nerfed demoman the wrong way could actually see it changed.
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also, fuck the parachute but one thing at a time
http://www.valvesoftware.com/email.php
TF team is at the bottom if anyone still doesn't know their email. They actually do respond a decent amount of the time in my experience. (considering it's probably just one intern updating tf2 at this point). Sending them an essay will probably cause them to skip it but a couple sentences explaining how they nerfed demoman the wrong way could actually see it changed.
[spoiler]also, fuck the parachute but one thing at a time[/spoiler]
TF team is at the bottom if anyone still doesn't know their email. They actually do respond a decent amount of the time in my experience. (considering it's probably just one intern updating tf2 at this point). Sending them an essay will probably cause them to skip it but a couple sentences explaining how they nerfed demoman the wrong way could actually see it changed.
[spoiler]also, fuck the parachute but one thing at a time[/spoiler]
ExquisiteStonetl;dr
lots of really mad people who don't want to improve on how they play and want to keep playing the same old game forever.
This thread could probably be closed, I barely see anything that would help anyone or the game, including my own posts.
ExquisiteStoneI can't dispute any points any one has made so I'm going to leave, throw out insults to anyone who disagrees with me and then throw out the safety self depreciation so I don't look too bad.
[quote=ExquisiteStone]tl;dr
lots of really mad people who don't want to improve on how they play and want to keep playing the same old game forever.
This thread could probably be closed, I barely see anything that would help anyone or the game, including my own posts.[/quote]
[quote=ExquisiteStone]I can't dispute any points any one has made so I'm going to leave, throw out insults to anyone who disagrees with me and then throw out the safety self depreciation so I don't look too bad.[/quote]
lots of really mad people who don't want to improve on how they play and want to keep playing the same old game forever.
This thread could probably be closed, I barely see anything that would help anyone or the game, including my own posts.[/quote]
[quote=ExquisiteStone]I can't dispute any points any one has made so I'm going to leave, throw out insults to anyone who disagrees with me and then throw out the safety self depreciation so I don't look too bad.[/quote]
ExquisiteStonenow you just have to predict better (2 sec ahead)
Whoever you're shooting a sticky at probably wouldn't be too close to it if you wait a full 2 seconds to det on them.
[quote=ExquisiteStone]
now you just have to predict better (2 sec ahead)[/quote]
Whoever you're shooting a sticky at probably wouldn't be too close to it if you wait a full 2 seconds to det on them.
now you just have to predict better (2 sec ahead)[/quote]
Whoever you're shooting a sticky at probably wouldn't be too close to it if you wait a full 2 seconds to det on them.
ExquisiteStonenow you just have to predict better (2 sec ahead)
If you can predict your enemy's movement by a whole 2 seconds (especially at close range) then either your enemy isn't worth playing against or you're literally a savant.
[quote=ExquisiteStone]now you just have to predict better (2 sec ahead)[/quote]
If you can predict your enemy's movement by a whole 2 seconds (especially at close range) then either your enemy isn't worth playing against or you're literally a savant.
If you can predict your enemy's movement by a whole 2 seconds (especially at close range) then either your enemy isn't worth playing against or you're literally a savant.
DavidTheWinI can't dispute any points any one has made so I'm going to leave, throw out insults to anyone who disagrees with me and then throw out the safety self depreciation so I don't look too bad.
Please quote my insults?
Also, if you have a certain mindset, I can't change it so why bother? I play this game because I like it, not because I want to whine on forums about nerfs all day long.
[quote=DavidTheWin]I can't dispute any points any one has made so I'm going to leave, throw out insults to anyone who disagrees with me and then throw out the safety self depreciation so I don't look too bad.[/quote]
Please quote my insults?
Also, if you have a certain mindset, I can't change it so why bother? I play this game because I like it, not because I want to whine on forums about nerfs all day long.
Please quote my insults?
Also, if you have a certain mindset, I can't change it so why bother? I play this game because I like it, not because I want to whine on forums about nerfs all day long.
ExquisiteStonePlease quote my insults?
ExquisiteStoneyou were always that Spammy demo that didn't want to learn any other aspects of the class
ExquisiteStonelots of really mad people who don't want to improve on how they play and want to keep playing the same old game forever.
ExquisiteStonenot because I want to whine on forums about nerfs all day long.
Not necessarily what you'd call insults, but they are a poor method of trying to discredit an opposing viewpoint by commenting on the person making the argument rather than the argument itself.
[quote=ExquisiteStone]
Please quote my insults?
[/quote]
[quote=ExquisiteStone]
you were always that Spammy demo that didn't want to learn any other aspects of the class
[/quote]
[quote=ExquisiteStone]
lots of really mad people who don't want to improve on how they play and want to keep playing the same old game forever.
[/quote]
[quote=ExquisiteStone]not because I want to whine on forums about nerfs all day long.[/quote]
Not necessarily what you'd call insults, but they are a poor method of trying to discredit an opposing viewpoint by commenting on the person making the argument rather than the argument itself.
Please quote my insults?
[/quote]
[quote=ExquisiteStone]
you were always that Spammy demo that didn't want to learn any other aspects of the class
[/quote]
[quote=ExquisiteStone]
lots of really mad people who don't want to improve on how they play and want to keep playing the same old game forever.
[/quote]
[quote=ExquisiteStone]not because I want to whine on forums about nerfs all day long.[/quote]
Not necessarily what you'd call insults, but they are a poor method of trying to discredit an opposing viewpoint by commenting on the person making the argument rather than the argument itself.
"lots of really mad people who don't want to improve on how they play and want to keep playing the same old game forever."
More an observation than an opinion :P
;Going to sleep now, but imo people shouldn't make such a fuss about it and try finding new strats (or do usually extraordinary strats more often, I still find sycning stickies, basically spamming if you do it right, still does insane damage) instead of blowing the whole nerf up and claiming TF2 comp is dead
"lots of really mad people who don't want to improve on how they play and want to keep playing the same old game forever."
More an observation than an opinion :P
;Going to sleep now, but imo people shouldn't make such a fuss about it and try finding new strats (or do usually extraordinary strats more often, I still find sycning stickies, basically spamming if you do it right, still does insane damage) instead of blowing the whole nerf up and claiming TF2 comp is dead
More an observation than an opinion :P
;Going to sleep now, but imo people shouldn't make such a fuss about it and try finding new strats (or do usually extraordinary strats more often, I still find sycning stickies, basically spamming if you do it right, still does insane damage) instead of blowing the whole nerf up and claiming TF2 comp is dead
ExquisiteStone"lots of really mad people who don't want to improve on how they play and want to keep playing the same old game forever."
More an observation than an opinion :P
It's neither, you're trying to discredit an argument by dismissing the person making the argument as being "mad" or saying "they don't want to improve on how they play and want to keep playing the same old game forever." rather than trying to address what they are saying.
[quote=ExquisiteStone]"lots of really mad people who don't want to improve on how they play and want to keep playing the same old game forever."
More an observation than an opinion :P[/quote]
It's neither, you're trying to discredit an argument by dismissing the person making the argument as being "mad" or saying "they don't want to improve on how they play and want to keep playing the same old game forever." rather than trying to address what they are saying.
More an observation than an opinion :P[/quote]
It's neither, you're trying to discredit an argument by dismissing the person making the argument as being "mad" or saying "they don't want to improve on how they play and want to keep playing the same old game forever." rather than trying to address what they are saying.
I don't think this was a nerf because of parachute. If it was, they would have nerfed damage directly or they would have prevented Demo from being able to use it. This was a calculated decision.
Neither the 6v6 community nor Valve was going to change their views on how they think the game should be played. Valve wants to see meta shifts and usage of the different classes more often, while the 6v6 community dislikes this because the other classes and weapons can be dumb, bad, or unbalanced.
This is Valve's way of reaching out to us. They gave us a rocket launcher that benefits from getting kills and bombing. By nerfing the sticky bomb launcher, they made all the secondary unlocks more viable. A sniper rifle that, while currently is in need of a buff, makes the sniper more mobile. The Heavy nerf prevents a heavy from instantly destroying any class that gets close. Hell, a while ago they fixed the powerjack and gave Pyro more mobility so that it would be run more often. They're trying.
We may not like it, but Valve is at least attempting to fix things that are dumb even if they are late doing it. They're trying to balance for pubs while acknowledging that we're here. That's fucking hard.
They definitely didn't approach the nerf well, and I think that this could've been handled better as a whole. This definitely should not have come out in the middle of a season, and they should have had some invite input on the matter.
I don't think this was a nerf because of parachute. If it was, they would have nerfed damage directly or they would have prevented Demo from being able to use it. This was a calculated decision.
Neither the 6v6 community nor Valve was going to change their views on how they think the game should be played. Valve wants to see meta shifts and usage of the different classes more often, while the 6v6 community dislikes this because the other classes and weapons can be dumb, bad, or unbalanced.
This is Valve's way of reaching out to us. They gave us a rocket launcher that benefits from getting kills and bombing. By nerfing the sticky bomb launcher, they made all the secondary unlocks more viable. A sniper rifle that, while currently is in need of a buff, makes the sniper more mobile. The Heavy nerf prevents a heavy from instantly destroying any class that gets close. Hell, a while ago they fixed the powerjack and gave Pyro more mobility so that it would be run more often. They're trying.
We may not like it, but Valve is at least attempting to fix things that are dumb even if they are late doing it. They're trying to balance for pubs while acknowledging that we're here. That's fucking hard.
They definitely didn't approach the nerf well, and I think that this could've been handled better as a whole. This definitely should not have come out in the middle of a season, and they should have had some invite input on the matter.
Neither the 6v6 community nor Valve was going to change their views on how they think the game should be played. Valve wants to see meta shifts and usage of the different classes more often, while the 6v6 community dislikes this because the other classes and weapons can be dumb, bad, or unbalanced.
This is Valve's way of reaching out to us. They gave us a rocket launcher that benefits from getting kills and bombing. By nerfing the sticky bomb launcher, they made all the secondary unlocks more viable. A sniper rifle that, while currently is in need of a buff, makes the sniper more mobile. The Heavy nerf prevents a heavy from instantly destroying any class that gets close. Hell, a while ago they fixed the powerjack and gave Pyro more mobility so that it would be run more often. They're trying.
We may not like it, but Valve is at least attempting to fix things that are dumb even if they are late doing it. They're trying to balance for pubs while acknowledging that we're here. That's fucking hard.
They definitely didn't approach the nerf well, and I think that this could've been handled better as a whole. This definitely should not have come out in the middle of a season, and they should have had some invite input on the matter.
valiant even if they are late doing it.
This is the issue. It's ok for things like the powerjack that's just a slightly different pyro playstyle that in the end doesn't really affect how the entire highlander team operates, but when it comes to the sticky launcher which is the core weapon of one of the core classes in both game modes it does matter that they are late doing it like I said in my earlier post.
[quote=valiant] even if they are late doing it.[/quote]
This is the issue. It's ok for things like the powerjack that's just a slightly different pyro playstyle that in the end doesn't really affect how the entire highlander team operates, but when it comes to the sticky launcher which is the core weapon of one of the core classes in both game modes it does matter that they are late doing it like I said in my earlier post.
This is the issue. It's ok for things like the powerjack that's just a slightly different pyro playstyle that in the end doesn't really affect how the entire highlander team operates, but when it comes to the sticky launcher which is the core weapon of one of the core classes in both game modes it does matter that they are late doing it like I said in my earlier post.
This thread has been locked.