Arx*snip*
<3
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Country | United Kingdom |
Signed Up | November 10, 2015 |
Last Posted | August 28, 2018 at 1:14 PM |
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GentlemanJonMaybe, but the fact there is a vacuum to fill is the point isn't it?
Only myself and Arch can answer the questions that I have so far. If the vacuum isn't filled in a few days then there's the problem.
GritomaDanSThe guy who dev’d (not designed) the overlays last year fell out with wolf or somethingDanSLasse was a hugely underappreciated member of the i61 team, and put a lot of work into the innovative production stuff we saw then (player cams, nuze news, web hud/overlay, srctv+). It was a big mistake for Wolf to let him go with little reasonseems like a recurring theme here
Same dude.
GentlemanJonDanSVarious answersThe problem is a lack of planning and clear structured guidance from above as well as a failure to keep creative and capable people that want to contribute inside the org.
Lasse was a hugely underappreciated member of the i61 team, and put a lot of work into the innovative production stuff we saw then (player cams, nuze news, web hud/overlay, srctv+). It was a big mistake for Wolf to let him go with little reason, and the costs were suffered this lan.
GentlemanJonEdit: Also the fact someone else is being wheeled out to do damage control is entirely predictable.
Me responding to the criticism in this thread is my decision, as I believe people are owed answers to a lacklustre performance from myself. It also helps me organise my thoughts and focus on what I need to improve next time. Nobody put me up to this, I'm sure answers to others' failings will come in time.
AoshiDuring the final the communication between production and staff on stage/the players was super limited and not well prepared. We where doing all that was possible with discord, me on just my mobile phone and dan in the back at production. One of the best examples is us missing the start of Granary. The internet of the production had dropped and, although they where 5 meters away, we had no clue on stage and ended up starting without them being close to ready.
This was one of the worst parts for sure. Although, saying that, at least we (production) had a say at when the games started during this time. The rest of the time we were guessing based on players in server, but it was a regular occurrence for a player to leave when there were 12 in server (kaidus pls).
KevinIsPwni still don't understand what essentials is, why the stream was on that channel, or what it is trying to do in the scene, i feel like i missed the branding boat entirely with that org, someone explain what niche it fills??
Initially I think it was supposed to just be the guide and news site it once was. Removing the guides section was my first task when I joined the web dev team, and it was never high enough on the priority list given by wolf to add back.
Eventually he/they/we branched into production with a dreamhack I believe? Then TFTV didn't want to do i61, so here we are.
uberchain*snip*
I don’t think your comments were deconstructive. They were pretty fair in my view.
If we can hold some kinda postmortem (maybe one for staff then a public one), we can effectively build off this LAN and make sure the same mistakes aren’t made again. This way time can be spent solely on improving the next event and not wasting it on building an event again from scratch. This can only happen if the core team stays together, as it changed too much this year for that to happen.
DreamboatThe only real negative argument I could see is that TF2 is a smaller community and I'm not sure there are the dedicated people to run two full orgs. However, from a personnel standpoint, there's benefits to a second org as well in the sense that if there's personal issues, it would give talent an alternative. IE. If someone at one org pissed me off or treated me poorly, my options would currently be suck it up, or dont work, whereas with competition I could go to the competitor who might treat me better. Usually this forces orgs to treat personnel better, because if they treat them like shit they'll go elsewhere.
I think a second org would split the talent too much, and whichever one gets the big events would be the prime option for talent, regardless of personal afflictions. We need more community teamwork in my opinion is all.
VisDanSSorry that I had to break it down for youVisSo you basically copied the logs, combined them and then sorted the players by k/d ratio. Could be done in 30 seconds with logs.tf and it's not even relevant because several people had huge impact on the game which cannot be seen in the logs themselves.
please leave
There's no reason to not like what he's done, it's just something else to look at if you like. If not, no need to comment.
VisSo you basically copied the logs, combined them and then sorted the players by k/d ratio. Could be done in 30 seconds with logs.tf and it's not even relevant because several people had huge impact on the game which cannot be seen by the logs.
please leave
GentlemanJonRegarding the note in the google doc on this, Essentials have actively rejected the use of any of my work in any of their productions despite it being freely available to all (apart from that impossibly high barrier of, you know, asking), so the end of the services will have had no effect on the i63 show. The reasons I've heard are "it's shit" and "it's off brand" (modifying OBS browser instance CSS being too hard presumably), although this is second hand at best.
I hadn’t heard anything about this, I’ll speak to wolf.
GentlemanJonThe layouts were only very slightly improved from last year (as far as I could see one caption had better alignment) and there was still poor status information available most of the time
The guy who dev’d (not designed) the overlays last year fell out with wolf or something, so requested we stopped using any of his work. Jon had to rewrite the whole overlay system, which is why it was very similar looking.
GentlemanJonwe still have a black curtain backdrop, shot framing was poor,
Producers (not camera techs) had to reframe cameras in very short transitions wherever possible, so the ended up getting untouched most of the time. I had to do it many times and know nothing about cameras.
GentlemanJonIf anyone's planning to challenge Essentials for coverage the weak points are obvious and easily exploitable in a rival bid. At the very least some competition might force Essentials to up their game.
I don’t think two orgs competing is a good idea if wolf is willing to open up the upper echelons of essentials staff to people like yourself and the community in general. The closed framework he’s going for is stifling.
uberchainThe only exception is the Grand Finals stage, which felt better than i61's. Crowd noise was hype and audible due to actually being near the casters, the stage was cool, and it helps that both teams played fantastically and so evenly. It was almost therapeutic how satisfying the grand finals stage production was, because of how rough Day 1 and 2 were, after hearing about production people who probably fought tooth and nail to get shit working.
Very true, although that was because the pro stage guys did all the audio mixing and cam work for us. The least stressful part for me was once the grand final had started, as we shared the workload with them.
uberchainMultiplay fucked up and is frustrating to talk with e.g. main stage delayed 2 hours finals ended 2 AM, to smaller things like prod PCs apparently not being provided
Yep. Servers caused huge problems on Friday too. Twiikuu the server master saved the day.
All production machines were provided by essentials.
uberchainMore visual stimulation during talking segments to supplement what they're talking about is needed, like stats or team photos or something. More editing on variety segments during downtime, I like them but they drag on/are awkward due to no editing.
Lack of people power.
uberchainBring other teams that might be free/were eliminated for more couch interviews
Again, really poor communication with players hindered this. There was also no one free to organise this stuff, so what stuff we did have was either organised by production or turbo/grumpy. We need someone else there.[/quote]
uberchainSound issues are back again and they're still bad. The hot mics, the music bleeding into the couch segments, the mics not even being on sometimes, sound levels, as well the desync on the live feed during Day 1. The sound also fluctuated during the Grand Finals, though part of me suspects it was because it might have bled into the players' ears or was too loud at the venue. This is the second year audio issues have come up, I am so sick of it. I understand if producer is also trying to do sound at the same time, but a dedicated audio engie is probably better for you to have.
Yep. Lack of staff and severe lack of prep.
uberchainWhat is going on with you volunteers? Why does it seem like there was a lot of tension between the higher ups of Essentials versus the talent? People I won’t name were agreeing with things that Getawhale had said in his stream according to that one thread. Dr. Happiness seemed SUPER spread out, and TFTV was waiting on information for articles before we eventually had to scrounge for it. Why are the players and teams receiving little information or clearer communication? Why has Essentials not learned anything after a year of producing i61? Who did they ask for help from? Why were people STILL shouting at production?
This is above me, but a valid problem.
uberchainThere wasn't enough production equipment that people needed actually there like prod or social media PCs, limiting what the social media/photojournalism/video editing/admin team who needed them could do
We had the equipment, but a severe lack of production planning outside of what Jon did setup wise would be the cause here. I asked several times for at the very least a rundown of the production setup but got nothing. I found out what I was working with on Thursday.
uberchainPeople spread themselves out too many roles and a lot of different things at once, which made it hard to keep track of things or stay on the ball
100%
uberchainSomebody didn't step up as much as they could have or got lazy, and if it's a repeat offender, should not come back next year to do their responsibilities if they under-performed so badly after feedback, that it affected the show
Jon, our most experienced producer, setup on Thursday, but had to leave then for something else we had known about beforehand, so this couldn’t be helped. Definitely would’ve been better with him there. Makes it doubly disappointing that I had little info pre-setup though.
uberchainTFTV would talk to dedicated Multiplay admins who were coordinating the TF2 tournament months, MONTHS earlier (not 2, not 3, a bit more than that) to talk to higher-ups to get what they needed. We're talking the moment the project is signed. Those admins are retired now. It might be a harder struggle.
I think Wolf worked on communicating with them in advance, but clearly there was not enough, idk from which end.
uberchainThing is, whatever was not available was actually brought into the LAN's country or rented out - high-end video cameras, cables, mackey, industry standard commentator headsets. These things cost up to thousands of dollars.
We rented cameras, and wolf brought all the other production stuff needed other than monitors, speakers and headsets.
SnackA majority of matches started half-way into the midfight
We had 0 contact with players directly, outside of rcon say, so predicting when the game was going live was near impossible. This combined with imo too long map intros lead to often cutting to gameplay as demos reached mid.
SnackGame audio levels were too low for a majority of the lan except for grand finals.
This is one side of the story, we had people in chat and crowd often complaining it was too loud. Any time it was off completely though, that was obviously production’s fault.
SnackSpectating errors where a camera would get stuck on one player for too long, or you'd have the picture-in-picture with both screens displaying the same feed.
The observers had so much to think about this lan. To do pip they had to have the game running twice, and manage when those were shown on screen with their own OBS setup. Observing TF2 is incredibly intense at the best of times, especially without a cheat feed or at least the minimap we had last year. Big credit to gemm and Sim who both did great.
SnackOn day 2 the guys on the couch cut to a pre-recorded segment of Dr.Happiness literally saying "Yep it's day 2 at LAN the games have gotten started and production is under way :)". What did this add to the stream? Why even put it in there?
Sometimes we just need something to allow casters to move from couch to desk where we’re not showing the cams. The alternative would have been cutting to (an empty) crowd cam with music for 2 minutes, and yet I don’t think you would have whinged about that?
SnackOn day three after the Ora Elektro vs SVIFT match you guys left the camera on Grumpykoi, Samski and Ombrack for an hour and 10 minutes whilst we waited for the next match to start and throughout the entire interview you can see Grumpy desperately trying to pull new topics out of his ass to keep the interview going. Why was this interview not cut short after MAX 30 minutes to one of those "stream resumes in X" screens? Was it so necessary to put an hour and 10 minutes of the same 4 interview questions phrased differently on stream?
TurboTabs had a no breaks policy, which was fine. The trouble was no one was monitoring desk during this time, checking on Grumpy, as we were so stretched planning the grand final logistics. I put this down to lack of staff and shit out of our control.
Snackshould Essentials continue producing them…
It's not "should we keep producing", it's "does anyone else wanna do it".
As the one who spent the most time on the desk (joined by ArchRhythm the rest of the time), I feel like I can provide answers for at least a few of the issues raised.
(this got really long so it's gonna be across a few messages)
stephno
Ah, thanks for clearing that up for us...