Kind of yeah. It's human nature to dislike change, especially when they've grown accustomed to something over a long period of time. Most people grew to enjoy TF2 for the pub aspect of it. Changing to a 6v6 competitive format that limits their classes will feel like a slight against them. They won't take it as expanding horizons. Having to learn what would pretty much be an entirely different kind of game will sound like shit to them, most people at this point have probably been playing TF2 for years, and pubbers have been playing all classes in chaotic game modes for years. That's what they've come to enjoy. That's what they will enjoy. To just expect them to instantly like an entirely different game is crazy, and super risky from Valve's end.

Off in the distance I heard a cry for help. A cry for an unbiased opinion.

I mean regardless of whether I play or not it's not hard to see what Valve will do based on their history. The only response to what I said was blatantly biased opinions saying the 6v6 is a better format so Valve will use that one. That's just...childish almost. DIS ONE BETTER. Yes to you...

I don't even play TF2, never have.

I play real competitive games.

Trust me, I am not angry in the slightest. To be honest I feel like I've had some really level headed unbiased posts, but you guys just angrily -frag and ignore all the logic behind it. If anything you guys are angry. I would love it for competitive TF2 to succeed and grow. It would be great for gaming.

But it won't.

Yeah those first few are real unbiased opinions. I'm sure pubstars agree with you.

Valve doesn't care about LAN events or pre-established leagues. Why would they? How does that make them any money? If by some miracle highlander takes off and the TF2 competitive community explodes they might make a highlander LAN event with a decent prize pool from hat money, but they aren't about to just starting losing money throwing LAN events for a dying community. They need to see the financial benefit first.

Hey man I was just saying what I thought. You guys are the one that took offense.

For you. For a competitive player. Most pubbers don't want dynamic flow. They don't want anything confusing.That takes effort to learn and practice to get good at. They want to be good now, so they need something easy to digest It's the reason why CSGO has weapons like the p90 and why pistols are so strong and why the game in general is much easier/dumbed down compared to CS 1.6.

You guys all look at it from your perspective, which is quite obviously biased. Look at it from Valve, and more importantly, the average pubbers perspective.

Yeah that will happen.

Did you not even read my post? I mean logically there is no other choice from Valve's end. If they make matchmaking that will instantly become the most popular thing to play on TF2. Are they going to look at 3 classes, all the hats, and all the weapons people have, all the money they spent, and tell them it's useless? There is just absolutely no fucking way that happens. Especially with highlander already being more popular amongst pubbers(the large majority of the community) than the competitive format...I mean every single thing points to it being 9v9. When has Valve ever cared about the 6v6 format? They pretended to for like..2 months a few years back, but then they realized the money they're making off weapons and skins is so absurd that they're just going to go all in. And they made bank.

Edit - If you can give me one good reason from Valve's end to support the 6v6 format over 9v9, then please do it. I gave you several why Valve will go with 9v9, all very strong points imo. Don't just disregard it out of blind hope, but accept it.

You do realize this will be 9v9 right? Think of it like CSGO. Why is Valve so incredibly adamant about making all the weapons balanced? Is it out of some desire to make a totally balanced game where everything can be used? Fuck no. It's to make money off skins, the more weapons that can be used, the more market transactions, more money for Valve.

Let's translate it to TF2. Well not only do we have specific guns for each class, but we have class specific hats. Are they just going to take 1/3 of the hats/guns in the game and tell everyone to fuck off about it? Are they going to cut 1/3 of their skin profits on a FREE game where that is their only money maker? Hell no. Matchmaking WILL be 9v9. It's the only thing that makes sense from Valve's end. Valve has never cared about the competitive community, in CS or in TF2, hell, not even in Dota. They care about their wallets, and if they can exploit the competitive as a means to an end, they will do it in a heartbeat.

Edit - Am I wrong or something? Or do you guys -frag because it's a harsh truth. If that's the case I'm sorry for hurting your feelings.

There's a lot more questions than just that. How will that quantify skill/rank? Will it be by class? Will it be overall wins/kdr? How do you choose who is playing what class? It's unreasonable to expect everyone to be good with every class in an fps compared to playing support vs core in dota. What if the someone leaves? In CSGO you're fucked. Will it be the same here? It will be a much bigger deal if your medic leaves. Weapon bans? Hat bans? Those are what I've thought of in about 30 seconds. I bet there are a dozen more, and I highly doubt Valve can handle implementing this effectively considering it seems like all of their talent is working on Dota 2.

My point was in response to someone who claimed TF2 was alive because of the numbers. I was making a counter point. I never said whether the game would grow or not after MM was implemented, just that as it currently stands it is not growing, and because no growth is negative growth, it is dying.

Does it matter where they're from? The point is the game has stagnated while the number of gamers have increased. It's not necessarily a bad sign, but don't look at it like it's a good sign.

Steam users have pretty much doubled over those 3 years though...it's like if you made the same salary 10 years from now it would actually be like making less because of inflation.

Also, do you think that number correlates with the competitive community numbers?

I can see it now. Valve releases TF2 match making tomorrow. The gaming community shits their pants because their beloved hat simulator can finally be played in a pseudo competitive environment so they can tell themselves they're good. The game grows exponentially overnight surpassing CSGO almost instantly.

Over the course of the next month TF2 overtakes Dota 2 in numbers. Valve cancels The International and creates The TeamFortress Matchmaking Extravaganza Tournament. The entire Dota 2 dev team leaves Dota 2 for TF2 because people at Valve can work at whatever they want for some stupid reason. The 2 CSGO devs and the 1 intern also migrate to TF2 after realizing what a unique opportunity they've been presented with. After seeing their peers make such a leap, every single employee of Valve starts to work on TF2. With no one working on any other games or projects, all Valve franchises die except for glorious TF2. Valve renames themselves to TeamFortress Inc. Source 2 is never released, but it's for the best, because that is part of the charm of TF2, hitting half the shots you didn't deserve and missing half the shots you did.

President Obama realizing what a unique and fantastic game TF2 is declares April 30th TF2 day stating, "I have never in my life played such a fine game with such an abundance of hats, it is my honor and privilege to declare this glorious day that TF2 matchmaking was released, TeamFortress day, and the following 9 days will be named after each class, and there will be massive parties on every street corner in the United States which I will pay for myself, and by myself I mean I will tax you more".

2 years since TF2 matchmaking was released it is a worldwide sensation. There are no more sports, no football, no soccer, no baseball, everything is gone, there is just TF2. The prize pool for The TeamFortress Matchmaking Extravaganza Tournament's increases to 11 billion dollars. Entire lives are dedicated to the game of TF2, perfecting the art of rocket jumping, or right clicking to blow up some stickies, or flicking your mouse at air but getting the hit because his hitbox is actually there server side. The game seems to have no bounds.

3 years later Gaben is voted president of the world, garnering 8.5 billion votes in favor of him. The remaining 500 million people are then executed.

1 year later Gaben's impending heart disease finally catches up with him. The world weeps as they await the terrible news of the passing of their leader. Gaben is surrounded by his 600 children, all with prostitutes, and smiles seeing how the world has changed for the better because of him, but weeps knowing that no one can replace him. As he prepares to take his final breath a light shines down from the heavens. God himself speaks. "Gabe Newell, you are a man of infinite worth to this world, your accomplishments in life has touched the lives of 9.5 billion people...and I hope that your accomplishments in death will do the same." Gaben slowly lifts out of his bed, drifting towards the sky. His 600 children stand in shock not being able to process what is happening. But Gaben can. He knows that he has achieved godhood. As he makes his way to the heavens he looks back as a mortal being one last time, smiles down at his children, and says his final words. "Tomorrow is the release date of Half Life 3." And with that he departs.

Or the game will die because it's shit.