Also: Oilfield http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=688

I'm trying really hard to keep my cool here, and I know I've written things up in a way thats pretty vitriolic and ranty. I apologize for that. However, I do think its important for you guys to take a very hard look at what you are attempting to solve with this map change, as well as what the consequences of such a change would be.

To summarize, I think you have SEVERELY underestimated the amount of work, time, energy, and organization it would require to push out an all new game mode that fundamentally alters the way comp is played. You have ZERO reliable examples of this gamemode working, even in a pug or public space, yet you seem to want to get everyone behind it, regardless of whether or not it works. The work involved in this alteration falls on the mappers, of which there are exactly three. But, most importantly of all, I don't think you've realistically thought through the implications of this change with regards to player perception. IF PEOPLE CAN'T EVEN MAKE NORMAL MAPS, IN GAMEMODES THAT ARE CURRENTLY PLAYED IN COMP WITHOUT BEING CALLED A SHITHEAD, I CAN'T IMAGINE THEM WANTING TO PLAY A COMPLETELY UNTRIED GAME MODE TO SOLVE A PROBLEM THAT ISN'T EVEN AN ISSUE WITH MAPS!

Okay, rant over. Obviously, I'm all for people wanting to make changes and alterations to existing maps. If someone makes a 3cp I'd gladly test it in the New Map Weekends, but to throw every single map under the bus to solve a problem that has more to do with the first person nature of the game, than with the map layout seems incredibly problematic.

LOVE AND HUGS AND KISSES AND KITTENS IN BASKETS

Scorpio

Not to be rude, but if you guys are trying to remove every single 5cp and replace them with 3cp you are asking the impossible.

1) There is one 3cp map (cp_oilfield). Exactly ONE map. In the years that TF2 has been out, only ONE MAP! If you are looking to replace all of the existing 5cp maps with 3cp maps, you aren't really starting on the right foot.

2) No one plays oilfield. I mean, no one. I remember some random pug that happened 3 or so years ago where we tried to play it and it basically turned into cap middle win round. Yes, you could argue that the spawn timers / cap times could be adjusted, etc etc, but the point remains: NO ONE PLAYS THE ONE MAP! If no one plays the one existent map in the format that you want, how are you going to convince people to put it in rotation, let alone replace an entire seasons worth of maps with 3cp maps?

3) Have you guys even thought about trying to change the rotation or line up of maps? Like, seriously thought about it? Imagine telling people no badlands, no granary, no viaduct. Imagine telling them that instead of playing a format they know, with maps they are familiar with, with a time limit they are adjusted to, they are going to be playing a completely untested format, with 8+ maps that have just been created (and that no one has ever played), on a completely different time limit / round limit. If people rage over A SINGLE map in rotation, one that fits the EXACT SAME control point mechanics they've been playing for years, and that has a very similar layout to maps they've already played, I CAN'T IMAGINE THE BACKLASH AND INSANITY THAT A CHANGE LIKE THIS WOULD BRING! HOLY SHIT, PREPARE YOURSELF FOR SOME INTERNET RAPE!!!! PEOPLE POOPED ALL OVER MY HOUSE WHEN I MADE STANDIN, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?

4) There are three mappers interested in competitive play. THREE! Out of all the people making maps currently, you guys have three. Now you want to tell those three mappers, they have to start over and make 3cp maps instead of what ever else they were working on? And that whatever maps they happened to get into rotation, by maintaining an exquisite balance between gameplay and aesthetics are worthless and have to be rejected? HOLY FUCK BALLS! I mean, I could imagine this from EA or some other top down, aggressively managed corporation that has some sort of ridiculous hierarchy system with Bobby Kotick (i.e. the devil) at the top, but from the hobbyish amateur "we play this game because its fun" group?

5) Making maps takes a really long time. I mean, I've gotten very proficient at it, I can hammer out an alpha map in three days to a week, but actually getting players together to playtest and refine the map takes much much longer, not to mention the detail work, visual refinements, and optimization. Now you tell me you need a map pool (8 maps or so) of completely new maps, new format, untested layout, and you need all the mappers to get behind it? WOW! I mean, it just seems like the demands you are putting on a (VERY SMALL) group of VOLUNTEER and HOBBYIST mappers is completely unreasonable.

6) As for the complaints directed at casting: DOTA games can take anywhere from ten minutes to one hour and thirty, with the average game running exactly an hour. If you've been paying attention, DOTA streams and vids have been going fucking crazy. The international with something like five hundred THOUSAND viewers? The problem is not the length or unpredictability of the matches, if anything it has a lot more to do with the first person view of the game itself.

THERE IS A POST LIMIT WHAT THE FUCK? Continued below

They've been doing it for awhile now. I think I remember an announcement about signing up for ESEA two seasons ago.

EVEN WORSE, ITS NOT ACTUALLY AN ISLAND!!!