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#33 TF Competitive 6v6 Class Restrictions in TF2 General Discussion

Refutation of the Argument Against Class Limits in TF2's 6v6 Competitive Mode

The argument against class limits in TF2's 6v6 competitive mode draws an analogy with triathlons and posits that the current rules favor Scouts and Soldiers at the expense of other classes. The analogy aims to illustrate that over-centralization on certain classes detracts from the competitive diversity and enjoyment of the game. Let's break down the points and address the flaws in this argument.

Triathlon Analogy

Analogy Misalignment: The triathlon analogy suggests that removing swimming would unfairly benefit runners and fundamentally change the nature of the triathlon. However, this comparison doesn't directly apply to TF2 because TF2's gameplay dynamics are not analogous to triathlons. Each class in TF2 has distinct roles and interactions that create a complex, multi-layered gameplay environment, unlike the linear, sequential nature of triathlon events.

Class Interdependence: In TF2, classes are designed to complement and counter each other in a dynamic balance. Limiting classes ensures that this balance is maintained, preventing any one class from dominating. Unlike a triathlon where each sport is separate, TF2’s classes interact simultaneously, making class limits essential for maintaining strategic depth and variety.

6v6 Competitive Rules

Current Meta: The current 6v6 meta with class limits (e.g., two Scouts and two Soldiers) has evolved over years of competitive play to balance mobility, damage output, and strategic versatility. Removing these limits could lead to over-centralization, where the most versatile and powerful classes dominate, reducing strategic diversity and making the game less competitive and enjoyable.

Adapting and Learning: The argument that limiting classes stifles learning and adaptation is flawed. Class limits actually encourage players to master multiple roles and strategies. For instance, players must learn to play different classes based on the team's needs and the unfolding match dynamics, fostering a deeper understanding and broader skill set.

Comparison with Highlander: Highlander (9v9 with one of each class) is a different format designed to ensure all classes are represented. The slower, more methodical gameplay of Highlander doesn’t directly translate to 6v6, which emphasizes faster-paced, high-stakes engagements. The dynamics and balance in 6v6 require different considerations to maintain a competitive environment.

Class Limits and Over-centralization

Class Stacking: Allowing unrestricted class selection in 6v6 would likely result in stacking the most powerful classes, such as multiple Medics or Soldiers, which would centralize the meta around those classes. This would reduce the need for diverse strategies and diminish the competitive complexity that class limits currently provide.

Specialist Classes: Specialist classes, like Heavy and Pyro, have narrow use cases in 6v6. Class limits force teams to strategically deploy these specialists in specific scenarios, enhancing the strategic depth. Without limits, the game could devolve into a meta where only the most versatile classes are viable, reducing the overall strategic variety and competitiveness.

Conclusion

The argument against class limits in TF2's 6v6 competitive mode misunderstands the intricate balance and dynamics of the game. Class limits are crucial for maintaining strategic diversity, ensuring all classes can play meaningful roles, and fostering a competitive environment where players must adapt and learn multiple roles. Removing these limits would likely lead to over-centralization, diminishing the competitive depth and enjoyment of the game. Thus, class limits are not only important but essential for the health and competitiveness of TF2's 6v6 format.

disclaimer: i did not read your post or this ai generated response

posted 3 months ago
#2 rgl lan moments that make yOH YEAAHH!!!!!! in Videos

these are the highlight of my season every season

posted 3 months ago
#17 A Famine of Medics in TF2 General Discussion

https://imgur.com/BEVM3GJ.png

my eternal op

posted 6 months ago
#15 A Famine of Medics in TF2 General Discussion

try milking an uber through a choke with a mute pocket scout who will only say "i didn't say to use" after you've been forced to a bomb that went uncalled

posted 6 months ago
#15 I think it’s time for a new league in TF2 General Discussion
mitchim getting deja vu

https://imgur.com/6iIwsoM.png

why does mustard always have to be wrong?

posted 6 months ago
#19 omg lft in Recruitment (looking for team)

6s cultural icon; idol.

posted 7 months ago
#48 RGL: Reiterating AC Policies in TF2 General Discussion

im not gonna claim that im speaking any more with my head than my heart, but i will just point out a couple things.

DrHappinessI'm mainly wanting to point out that this suggestion is incredibly dumb. Like, what is the point of having someones Steam DMs 'open' for people to send evidence to and to act as a middleman? The logistics of that don't even make sense, is someone supposed to friend every team leader for every division each season on the off chance that they send 'evidence' that could just be sent in a ticket? Who organises and gets people to send steam IDs, or are they supposed to just accept any friend request? Or to create a steam group and do stuff there which at that point is just another forum and adds complexity.

This literally already happens every season. Every admin adds the team leaders from their divs/creates a steam group to streamline coordination. How do you think demos are collected? How do you think playoffs are organized? In fact, the only things admins don't do as you've listed here is communicate with AC in any way.

DrHappinessIts really not hard. If you have evidence or suspicions that someone is cheating, make a ticket. If you "no longer care enough to open up the rgl ticket system", TF do you expect the Admins to do?.

I thought i already addressed this position but i think it was in one of the rewrites i deleted. it's always been the easy stance by RGL to blame the players for not doing "the bare minimum," but that doesn't really fix any problems, does it? You can criticize the culture of the community all you want, but that doesn't defeat my criticisms of RGL policies, and I maintain that its RGL's position to accommodate the community rather than lambast it.

DrHappinessThere are legitimate criticisms you can weigh against the AC team and this response, but presenting a solution when you can't even be bothered to do the bare minimum is ridiculous.

I've been an admin and I've applied to AC before, too.

Anyway, i could've just not thrown that edit in and collected my upfrags, but honestly i'm just frustrated that it seems increasingly that nothing is going to change in this league in spite of excessive public backlash. i'd like to encourage more people offering up suggestions to improve the system, even if they aren't super well thought out. At least that way we can get more insight into what the community would like to see more of going forward. And it gives you more people to dunk on, too!

posted 7 months ago
#44 RGL: Reiterating AC Policies in TF2 General Discussion
DubThinkone of the 6s admins mentioned it to our AC team and they were like "who?"

I had to rewrite this like 3 times because HOW ON EARTH COULD YOU HAVE A COMMUNITY AC TEAM WHOSE NEVER HEARD OF FENOMENO???

Please RGL, if You are reading this, just accept some people onto the AC team who can act as a messenger between the AC team and the community. Like just a couple really nice fellas that everyone likes, even if they couldn't spot a cheater for shit. cuz at least they will know who fenomeno is.

edit: sorry i had to collect my thoughts but let me justify the middleman thing. the AC ticket system is one of those ideas that seems great on paper but just doesn't mesh with the psychology of players. someone cheats against me in a game? i grab their demo and watch it with some friends. we laugh about it, say "i cant believe this guy!", and move on. by the time the watch party is over, the bad blood has been dealt with. i no longer care enough to open up the rgl ticket system and fill out a form, especially because i have no confidence anything will come of up given prior experiences. does it make me a bad person? maybe. but i know im not alone in this behaviour.

my point is that cheater demos get thrown around in steam DMs like trading cards, even if a lot of them never make it to the ticket system. so just have someone who has their steam DMs open that people know and can trust. that person can then pass those demos onto the AC team, and could even keep track of tips. i know it sounds completely redundant, but i think you would be surprised how much information such a person could pick up between playing pugs, scrims, and matches. and i have become increasingly convinced that nobody on AC has touched 6s maybe ever in their lives.

posted 7 months ago
#44 ban the lochnload next szn in TF2 General Discussion

wait, so we want loch banned because its hard to react to and can do a lot of damage over really long distances, and we want mg banned because it can 1-shot most classes and offers little counterplay?

i swear i've seen this before...

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posted 7 months ago
#78 Main Team Joint Statement #2 in TF2 General Discussion
HamiI think paying the AC would be TO get more people on the staff. Based on what we know of the AC job, it sounds like it's a tough job and clearly, there aren't many people offering to volunteer. And it's also extremely important. So paying people to do AC would be a win/win

to be brief, i don't think this is the right line of thinking. plenty of people apply to RGL AC, its just that very few are ever accepted to due RGLs rightfully rigorous interview process. Offering awful pay is more likely to attract kids than actual professionals. id rather they rethink their AC structure so that Good Samaritan™ eye testers could better help more important/blatant cheating cases reach a higher priority in their queue without needing to resort TFTV threads or without needing to commit dozens of hours to studying the blade of AC to make it onto the team themselves.

posted 7 months ago
#74 Main Team Joint Statement #2 in TF2 General Discussion

im just gonna go out on a limb and guess that paying 1 guy $50 a month is not gonna be as effective as, lets say, adding even 1 other person to the AC team. and im also gonna double down on the theory that high profile cases should get priority over newcomer HL demos.

im really with spacecadet here that you cannot look at this situation as anything but mismanagement of the league. sure, i imagine the 1 guy on AC is trying his best with what he's been given, but why hasn't he been given more? like an actual staff?

as an aside, if anyone has more specific information about exactly where the prize pool money is going, ive been really curious since this post was made:

https://imgur.com/s7397mE.png

i just thought it'd be really cool if AC or RGL provided servers were somehow hidden in here idk

posted 7 months ago
#2 Your 6s team pt. 2 in TF2 General Discussion

https://imgur.com/rHAhOBy.png

posted 7 months ago
#28 Map design in TF2 General Discussion
DivineATI've thought of an idea of how to fix resup binds being op, and I think the best way to do it would be to have the area that makes the shutter open be unable to resup. That way leagues don't have to outright ban the bind because you can sorta circumvent it by just changing classes. This way it would be way more consistent and prevent people living by the skin of their teeth or times where people resup when they're outside the shutter (lol).

Example pic of how I'd imagine it look like. The area has to be a little wider than the shutter cuz you can open shutters from the corner
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051767893878124635/1219137007133917184/image.png?ex=660a34d0&is=65f7bfd0&hm=97bc97bcc8c6aaa42536298b4196f7881bcb19d17da5a45cd20aa069054a101b&;
lawnn>it's granary
posted 8 months ago
#3 lack of postive energry in the community in TF2 General Discussion
Brockamong us
posted 9 months ago
#1 vhalin soldier flowchart in TF2 General Discussion

I tried to look it up but can't find it, if any of you have it I would appreciate it

posted 10 months ago
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