pretty much every notable player was able to attend at least 1 iseries event from the NA side, can't really speak much for the EU players though

sure maybe the third seed NA team couldn't go the majority of the time but they weren't going to out-perform b4nny/mixup anyway. the lack of iseries credit is defintely disappointing. for example duwatna won both i52 and i55 but only gets credit for one. in reality he's ranked 40th with 2 international lan wins, which represent wins over the highest level of competition across both NA and EU (and AUS)

https://assets.pokemon.com/assets/cms2/img/pokedex/full/002.png

also tictack snub

- I would argue yes? Clearly it's worth arguing over, it's what everyone is doing

- Someone in habib's chat just 2 days ago said "demos seem more pipe heavy these days" and habib's answer was "with the iron bomber yes." He doesn't speak for the entirety of the demo playerbase but it can absolutely make the game more pipe heavy, but not necessarily for the right reason.

- What's your definition of "a ton?" demos aren't walking around killing the entire server unless they're the best players in the game, but it can have an effect on the game. What's ban-worthy? If it only affects the game a ton? What about a gigaton? What about "a good amount?" A fair amount? IDK. It's a pretty clear advantage as a hitbox and the fix already exists. If it doesn't affect the game a ton, why not just use the fix?

- I don't know what kind of comparison this is that you used with the whole ping thing. This doesn't strengthen your point or make it any clearer. Like, let me just imagine I'm playing on a slightly slow server that gives +5 ping to everyone so I can make sense of the difference? If you have to go to weird explanations like this maybe the answer isn't as clear as you think it is

edit: also to clear things up on my end, my official stance on the issue is that it is only worth keeping because demo needs the buff to his primary weapon. It would be preferred to buff stock but maybe that's just wishful thinking. At least with a buffed stock hitbox, everything would appear more 1:1

I do think it's ridiculous that people are arguing it doesn't make a difference or isn't a big enough difference worth arguing over. Okay, then let's just implement the fix or ban the weapon, right? What's the big deal? It's just needlessly disingenuous when all you have to do is argue instead that demo needs the added consistency with the iron bomber.

I think surveys like this are hard to trust when it's so easy to brigade your way to influence the votes. If b4nny hypothetically pasted this poll in his chat and either told his viewers to vote to not ban the spoon or tactically expressed his opinion and "left it up to them," what does this say about the integrity of the voting? Hopefully something like that would be a violation regardless, but it's very easy for anyone with tf2 social capital to influence opinions and at that point it's hardly a democratic result. I'm not really sure what the solution is, but my first impression is that it makes much more sense to me for the league to either contact a representative from each team and ask them or just make the decision themselves based on whether or not it's affecting signups or something.

https://i.gyazo.com/76da23eac1ccd114e2bcb6db953d4322.png

I'm not sure why you'd need a plugin to prove that the iron bomber, a weapon with clear statistical advantage over the regular pipe launcher, gives you a tangible benefit. Even if that were true and 95% of the iron bomber shots would've hit anyway, when factoring in how many pipes demos shoot, from spam to deliberately shot pipes, 5% is quite a lot. If this plugin existed, you could easily find game-changing moments where a bomber clips a medic in the heel as they run away. It seems like a silly way to prove some sort of advantage especially when you've already admitted it has an advantage. And this is only one of the advantages the weapon has over the stock. Same hitbox size between the two and I think the iron bomber is still better than arbitrary rollers that are easier to identify and play around, but I guess that's close enough that it could be considered a sidegrade.

My argument would simply be that the iron bomber has a very silly and avoidable bug that is ignored, despite having a fix already available. And that begs the question of whether or not demo needs that buff. The counter to demo's incredible damage output has been to close distance, which I'd argue is definitely harder with 118.75% wider collision bounds. I think a better "own" to the iron bomber haters would be to simply use twiiku's fix and maintain the exact same level of accuracy and effectiveness, so we can all be sure that everything is operating as intended :)

I think the conversation is way past whether or not it's advantageous. It very clearly is and that's really not arguable. At this point if you're not going to implement the fix or ban the weapon the argument has to be that demo needs the slight buff.

https://clips.twitch.tv/DiligentBlushingCaribouDxAbomb-kjssrin2EQEPIdrn

https://i.gyazo.com/thumb/1200/2741f935b3b1beb59c3cbcf6f437bd74-png.jpg

https://youtu.be/SkH7ktZkmL4?t=226

?

I think it is understated how much Yz revolutionized the class

carnage did get healed and press w and define the modern "carry" scout but Yz showed how much of a threat scout could be once the projectile classes caught up (which they did). Yz's movement and aim were both so good and he was probably my biggest NA inspiration next to enigma. wltrs made me tho

I agree that enigma should be top 10

by the time you get to this point in the list you can't just count championships, takes all of the subtlety out of the discussion. these players should be the cream of the crop and are commended not only for championships but impact in the server, dominance during their time, whether or not they changed the game or their role, hypothetically how many times they would've won if they kept playing or didn't run into prime froyotech over and over, etc.

that being said, kind of sad that dave__AC and mo0se are just missing from this list. there are certainly people in this top 100 who did not have to be here and taking just 2 of them out gives players like dave and mo0se the recognition they deserve. IMO especially mo0se considering he was one of the best scouts I played against ever in TF2

WTF???????????

edit: also please fix this

https://i.gyazo.com/1920d1a04a17504e1e7faa8eb465d6cb.png

you can ask the same question for anyone who's ever cheated in tf2 and it'll never make sense, invite or not. it's not like you stand to gain much capital at all from cheating in tf2, whether that's monetary or just social. yet people still cheat... some people just be that way

lol was this clip ever explained or talked about at all...? I need to know the lore behind this very obvious aimlock onto the soldier because I can't see this being anything else. it's even more obvious if you .25 it... is this another one of those "this guy probably cheated but it's tf2 so who cares" type vibes?

i will spend 1 hour of talking about these 10 alone

edit: it is hard to imagine 39 tf2 players with better careers than duwatna

I think alex.exe should've made the list but I'll really only defend boomers if they were exceptional and destro was really, really good back then. Probably still a bit too high. Even though the competition is pretty lackluster you pretty much have to innovate and improve entirely by yourself. Even someone like myself that people think is a boomer had a lot of people to learn off of when I was getting into the game and that really accelerated my growth as a player and that knowledge bank only grows as time goes on. For a lot of the boomer squad they were learning the game and building the foundation for people that came after them, which I think is pretty impressive even if they were playing against people who could barely rocket jump. I'll reiterate though that I only really care if they were exceptionally good. Most of the boomer squad that span the 70-100 range could've all been back to back in the 90s and that would've been fine.