This is really cool, thanks for making and sharing this! Is there a way to run this in TF2C or another lobby options? Would love to try this.

Seems like this came to be, sorta. I am very happy with what we got this update.

Where can I watch it now?

Getting downvotes as a replacements to getting feedback feels nice. At least you put some more effort than a mouse click.

That aside, I don't really see how your argument really comes into play. First off, I don't cry about it "Sucking", I am stating the matter of fact that stalemates happen and that they tend to be less enjoyable- for players and moreso to spectators. Secondly, I really really enjoy 5cp hence my suggestion is not to root out core features of it- in fact a game with no really long holds will continue unobstructed. Finally, the "Timer" mechanic isn't overcomplicating things- a timer that has an Overtime feature is already present in play!!! The difference being that it's set to a whoping 10 minutes and results in no points at all for either team. The only "overcomplicated" part of my suggestion is the nitch tweak to overtime I snuck in, but my idea can entirely do without it just as well.

I have a much more realistic idea. as the above does nothing seeing that stalemates tend to happen on even Uber situation anyways. I would like feedback on it please.

Upon a point capture, a 4 minute countdown is aplied. That is enough time to build Uber, wait for an advantage, then use twice. Upon the finish of the countdown, if no point is contested, the round ends and partial points are distributed- 1/5 for holding Mid, 2/5 for holding 4th. If a point is contested, Overtime status is applied- cap revert speed is tripled, and a point cannot be captured if the enemy is contesting a point, the enemy backcapping you for initiating said overtime.

This means that a team leading in points can still stall, but the stalls are limited to 4 minutes which is bearable, and the losing team can gain partial points if the stalls happen with them in more map control and close the gap. The much smaller point reward for holds ensures that capturing last whenever possible is influential, but a 1 last point capture can be overcome with grinding successful holds against a stalling team.

Thank you for the criticism, first of all.

Those are valid concerns to have, bit I think they don't actually apply here:
The entire flame suggestion is using Projectile behaviours that already exist in this game. The suggested flame projectile is essentially an Iron Bomber with gravity off, player and building collision off, changed initial speed, projectile hitbox, visuals and mass, lifetime, action on lifetime end, damage on player hit, and damage. Those are just parameter changes of existing projectile code.

Setting up a wall of flames can of course catch a Soldier coming through, it's something you can do already really. However the "lingering" is much less than 0.7 seconds- the projectile lifetime, so that's not a "lemmi make a flame wall and walk away". Plus this wall of flames is visible, audible and costs ammo to maintain, and a Soldier bombing from high altitude will get licked by the lower damage edge of the flame at worse, if not avoid it, and bombing at a very low altitude fast will ensure that you get hit by very few flames.

Thanks guys!
Does anyone have feedback on stuff that should be changed?

That's a big factor to why Afterburn being harder to apply is important. Spy is already on the weaker end of the spectrum as classes go. With any Pyro buff, with Pyro being a natural Spy counter, this indirectly nerfs Spy with Pyro being used more often. With a change to flame range, this would make Spychecking potentially rediculous if one flame can ignite. Hence to prevent further worsening Spy's situation, AB being harder to apply than an "I hit you once" is crucial.

Note that the Pyro still deals damage to the Spy- so even if you didn't ignite you can still reveal the Spy through the cloak flicker, and flaming a teamate intentionally can be done thoroughly enough. So it will come down to who does the better job.

I am optimistic, I already emailed it to them a couple months back. I enjoyed making this anyways- this is the third attempt at making a suggestion, and the best one. What are your thoughts on this suggestion?

Care to explain? You still need to track the player hitscan hitbox. Anyhow, we are getting sidetracked as this thread isn't about reworking phlog anyways.

What are your opinions on the core suggestions above?

Can you explain why, please? This isn't very constructive.

Of course, if it turns out that 120 dps up to midrange is too much in testing, it will have to be set to a lower number. But I don't see a point in theoricrafting the precise numbers.

It really wouldn't be. The "Standart" DPS combat classes reach sits around 150: Scattergun at 166, Pills at 160, Shotgun at 144 and RL at 140 at point blank. At midrange exactly, raygun will be strongest since 120DPS at THAT range is very nice. However you actually have to perfectly track for that DPS, which isn't going to be an easy task and it lacks both Burst damage and AOE.

Strong? Of course, that's the idea, since you lose airblast. OP? Not really, no.

Phlogistinator is the best candidate to being reworked into a Ray Gun, really. Throw the crit thing away, replace with a hitscan that does constant 120 DPS up to midrange and decreases to 0 linearly up to 750 hummer units. Being hitscan it can destroy landed Stickies, and with it's rapid fire it can do that fast too, preserving this aspect of airblast.

Tie M2 to shooting a Half Life 2 esc orb that flies fast and deals OK damage (50?).

Original thread in this link
https://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/312265327163200027/

TL;DR:

Flamethrower Flames are changed to use Projectile behaviours. If done right, this behaviours could lead to interesting, high skill flame techniques that use the new interaction between flames and map geometry, as well as the ability of the Pyro to airblast his own flames. Hence the many issues of the flame particles can be thrown out of the window entirely. Pyro's Skill ceiling and power at the skill ceiling are both increased, and become par with the golden standart of classes such as Scout, Soldier, and Demo. The skill floor isn't increased, but isn't decreased either, which is good.

Flamethrower range is increased to a slight degree increases Pyro powerlevel too and makes him more of a Core-Support hybrid instead of pretty much full support. Pyro's prefered combat range becomes between Scout's almost-point blank and Soldier's Slightly shorter than midrange: Pyro prefers encounters that are midway to midrange (around 300HU), but can be useful up to 500 HU and down to point blank too.

Airblast and Afterburn changes aren't critical to understanding the point, and are relatively minor to this

This is a mirror of a similar thread I posted a year ago on the Steam Forums. I am interested in the feedback of higher level players on my past suggestions, so there will be a handful more of this

The following is a Rework suggestion for the Pyro class The rework is intended to make the Class more fun to play as and against, more consistant and less "Buggy", to increase the effectiveness of high skill usage of it without increasing -or with minor increase- to the low skill usage, and to make the class have a better defined role as a Core-Support hybrid class that can do well on both Defense and Offense (Not necessarily equally).

The main idea and the most important point is a change to how Flames work. The other suggested changes are of less gravity.

Redo the Flame Particle system entirely
Instead of the old system, which uses invisible, bad netcoded particles for flames and a useless graphical lightshow, implement using Projectiles.
Link to how Old flames work here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-DHvpL8aZU

The new Flame Projectiles have the following properties (You can skip to the buttom line)

• Flame Projectiles have a texture (Hurray!), and the old lightshow is gone.
  
• Flame Projectiles will exit the from nosel of the flamethrower when fired, with a speed that combines their base speed and the Pyro's movement speed (Same as now), in a narrow cone.
  
• Flame Projectiles ignore gravity, but do suffer significant air drag due to their low projectile mass. The size of the projectile is slightly smaller than it's texture
  
• When hitting solid map geometry, Flames will react to them similar to how granades do, by bouncing off with lower speed, instead of disapearing or passing through
  
• Flames interact with enemy players And the Pyro itself by damaging them. After a cooldown of a few ticks, the Flame can hit the same player again. They can hit multiple players
  
• Flames have a finite lifetime, similar to Granades. Over their lifetime, they will deal gradually decreasing damage
  
• Flame Projectiles are airblastable, but only by the Pyro that fired them. Upon reflect they reset their "Lifetime", same as reflected Granades
  
• Additionally, the initial speed air drag and lifetime are set such that the Flames have a maximal range Longer than it currently by 25%, the point blank damage is increased from the current 153DPS to 160DPS, and the maximal ranged flames (which now will all hit if aimed still) will deal 120 DPS.
  
• Pyro has 75% damage resistance to his own flames, similar to how Soldier and Demo have it

The exact numbers aren't the point, you need to test to get correct figures

Buttom line of this:
All in all, we get the following implications:
When aimed at the air, the Fire forms a cone that has a higher concentration of Flames at it's edge, and fast projectiles at it's base. This edge full of relatively slowed projectiles has the potential to hit the same player multiple times if the speed is matched, allowing more damage at the longer range if done correctly. The fast base means that the cone is adjustble over relatively short times.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=787729324

When aimed at a surface, Flames actually bunch up there. You still have the same total projectiles, but those that would have passed the obstacle stay there. This can be used by a good Pyro player to deal a high amount of damage in a very short time. If an enemy stays in that flameball long enough, they would even be getting hit by multiple times if the fireball is close enough to the Pyro.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=787729324

Those flame balls are useful for various things: Aiming at where your enemie's feet are going to be can give you higher damage outputs for some cases, walking into those flame balls when fired near a corner and then jumping can give you asmall boost to the hight due to self damage, and going in the front of your flame ball and then jumping can give you small speed boosts for faster overall rollout speed.
You can even Airblast a flame ball for a stronger than usual and further than usual burst damage. This however will take practice.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=787741451

Due to the ability to use those new behaviours in such flexible ways, there are probably more, yet to be explored strategies that can arise from those mechanics.
Make Afterburn harder to apply and more impactful when it is aplied
About the exact way to make afterburn better, I would admit that I don't have any definite, holy-grail idea. I have, however, an idea, and a few concepts that I think Afterburn should adhert to

• Afterburn should not be overly easy to apply, especially when suggesting a Pyro buff and an increased Flame range, due to the Spy class
  
• Afterburn should be impactful enough that it is a meaningful game mechanic
  
• Afterburn, like flames, should be consistant and make sense to the players (Not "Invisible)

What I suggest is the following mechanic: When recieving a high enough amount of Fire damage in a short enough span of time, players will be ignited, recieving 10 damage per second for 6 seconds (As oposed to the current 6 damage per second over 10 seconds).

It is not enough to be touched by 1 Fire Projectile to be lit anymore, so a sprayed out edge of fire will almost never ignite players or reveal spies. A possible way to implement it is that to ignite, a player must receive more than 20 Fire damage over thre last 0.25 seconds
Airblast streamlining
Make airblast cause a visual smoke like effect for a brief moment that indicates acurately where the airblast hitbox is. Just so we can get an idea of what the distances are. Additionally, Make the Shape of the airblast (agianst projectiles) less nonsensical. Not saying it should be smaller, or bigger, but give it a better shape that doesn't get behind the Pyro and such, and that rotates with the Pyro, you know?

An idea that seems reasonable is to incorporate a System similar to the one that aplies against players against projectiles. Here are two videos by Sigsev about both Projectile airblast hitbox and the (Effectibe) against player hitbox:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1g2x4b_Byg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3SfP8qprlA

The idea is this: Use the same kind of hit detection mechanism for Projectiles, but set it's centre to be the Pyro's face instead of the middle of hit hitbox, and maybe make the range longer and angle much higher than that of player airblast to acomodate the change from a large box to a cone. Additionally add the fix Sigsev suggested in his video here in regards to how the trace from the Pyro into the destination location of the Projectile so that Airblasts stop happening in wierd angles near teammates:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ-d4oUSVzE

All in all, here is what we get in one simple picture:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=792396476

Other than that, small changes such as a slightly shorter time between airblasts (0.7 instead of 0.75 seconds), slightly weaker player pushback on airblasted players are stuff that could be experimented with to make it better.

Suggested weapon changes Here: (Less important)
http://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/312265473878892640/

Finally, a link to the first part out of 4 from Sigsev's description of flame Mojo, which supports why we need the new system I suggests for flames further:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cuTTaVRDy0
And that's pretty much it. Thoughts?