I mean, if you're dumb enough to try to get good at tf2 by spending 100% of your time in either, DM > MGE

but if you're already good at tf2, or at least have good understanding of the game, MGE = DM imo

that looks like a really tasty mc hoof scrotum and colon

yeah, the thing for me (maybe I'm alone here and this is a bad thing, but idk) is that I think I aim differently against soldiers when compared to scouts (esp with pipes)- with soldiers, I almost use track aim to hit them, whereas with scouts I either twitch really spastically or, if they're not dodging much or fighting someone else, just throw out prediction pipes. I also feel like I'm forced to use pipes more against scouts (at least good ones)

of course it's anecdotal evidence, no one is gonna compile a perfect statistical breakdown of what strats work and what don't. my only point was that there is a lot more skill contained in THE BOMB than you allow for.

p.s. it's also anecdotal evidence that literally every invite player who has posted in here is ok with using stickies in mge, but it seems pretty clear based on that that some people are more upset about losing badly in mge than they are about not being able to properly practice

people play mge/dm to make themselves better in-game, right? at least, I should hope that that's the goal of practice mods (it is for me, anyways). as dummy said about blaze, playing a bombing soldier in mge can definitely be a decent analogy for bombing demos in game (something you will probably spend a fair amount of time doing if you're a roamer)

I thought we were talking about mge here, but regardless, timing is a massive factor in both mods. maybe not in a soldier v soldier or scout v scout fight in mge, but in a soldier v demo fight (as well as either class in dm) it definitely is. learning to look for openings before you bomb as a soldier or plus forward as a demo is helpful.

idk about dm, but in mge how strong your rocket jumps can be an enormous factor in soldier v demo or soldier v soldier (obviously not soldier v scout that much)

a) I don't see how using stickies make it impossible to practice soldier. what are you even practicing, if you're playing a pipes-only demo? strafing left and right while standing on the ground?

b) if pugging and scrimming were frequent enough/created enough DM scenarios for people, then we wouldn't be in training mods in the first place. just because there are 1. scenarios in-game where mge won't help you and 2. scenarios in mge that won't help you in game, doesn't mean there aren't also scenarios in mge that will help you in game. obviously there are scenarios where you need to know to not bomb. will mge help you with those? no, that's a gamesense thing, so they're irrelevant.

EDIT: whoops, forgot to respond to this

I don't know what mid-game rockets are

I half agree, personally I feel demo v scout is useful as well (or at least it was for me, idk about other dudes)

agreed, and it upsets me that people don't seem to realize this

a few months ago, termo aka yuri (arguably the best demo in australia) made a thread about demoman movement, essentially asking b4nny and other top na demos for advice on improving movement. all the random riff raff of the na community (clearly not knowing how high a level termo played and thus assuming he was some random noob) started posting about how "HERP DERP DONT WORRY ABOUT MOVEMENT WORRY ABOUT POSITIONING, IF YOU PLAY SAFE YOU WONT DIE ANYWAYS", and the OP got massively minusfragged. what they obviously failed to realize is that if your dm is really good, you can take risks that you wouldn't otherwise be able to, and output more dmg. and, as you said, movement is a huge aspect of that. that attitude of just playing passive as demo to avoid any risks is really dumb, and I hope people have abandoned it.

/minirant

uh...how is that my problem? if you don't want to deal with a demoman correctly that's your fault

not if the soldier is smart enough to just jump you

in-game, soldiers won't stay grounded lol

agreed

bombing is clown shoes difficulty? then how come most of the time I play bombing soldiers in mge I manage to hit them with airstickies, surf their rockets, and beat them?

how come not every gunboats soldier is good at roamer?

as zigzster said, there's a difference between hitting rockets and hitting high damage rockets. plus, factor in being good at rocket jumps, timing, and shotgun aim to finish kills, and its not completely worth it

your argument is "you shouldn't be allowed to use your primary weapon because I don't want to have to learn to counter it"

yeah theres a difference between stickies being easy and stickies being a really good weapon

honestly stickies can be pretty broken in soap but that doesn't mean that pipes-only is the solution, they REALLY need to implement the 2 per clip thing

if you're playing me it will be you first

I like playing against bombing gunboats sollies

I concur
http://tf2b.com/tf2/item/mustardoverlord/397276499

I don't care when someone removes when I go demo but it pisses me off when they start saying I'm shitty and a faggot for using stickies, get over yourself, I main demo and wanna practice it

no, you're not a faggot in my eyes for jumping me, and that's exactly the point

if I go pipes-only you'll crush me no matter what I do, so you won't actually practice fighting a demo the way you would in-game (e.g. jumping me)

and yes, idgaf what you say, there's such a thing as sticky aim and some demos are significantly better at it

tek's a monster

playing demo without stickies is a complete joke, anyone who actually expects you to do it is an idiot

play against a demo using stickies and actually practice your movement in a relevant way, if you can only kill a pipes-only demo you'll get raped by demos in game

nah, he's a tfc player who doesn't know much about tf2 so he gives near-absolute power to infinite