each class, from each team selects 1 weapon from each load out slot; then all weapons picked cannot be used by either team. As for the order of selection red scout - blu scout, blu soldier - red soldier . . and so on

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All stock weapons cannot be ban.

There are no permanently ban weapons

No hat bonus sets

Each team can undo any one [more?] pick of their opposing team, at the end of the pick-ban selection ]

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This system would allow for Valve to see which weapons are ban more frequently, and possibly see which weapons give an unfair advantage when used; as well as potentially allowing them information on adding weapon to the white-list of always allowed weapons, and the possible formation of a black list of perma-ban weapons

Not to mention this method has VERY competitive aspects to it.
-You can pick weapons you do not want to fight against
-You can pick weapons your opponent is better with
-You can ban items in such a way to enforce a strategy or method of game-play
-You can play mind-games by banning certain things
-You can add more variety to the game by being able to un-ban one weapon

This allows Valve to see every weapon being used, the the amount to which it is being used, while still creating a pug system which would bolster the competitive scene. i posted more on this on Sal's how to get in to comp lobbies thread - read more there if you have nothing else to do [ http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/8952-how-to-get-to-in-game-comp-lobbies/16 ]

-Next, we would see this system begin to work. Yes this would mean that you would see weapons used that you do not like; and yes this would mean that some times you cannot play with a weapon you are use to - But over time this system would likely begin to weed out broken weapons. And realistically, some thing like this must be done if tf2 is ever to become a true competitive game. And this would allow Valve a way to see how weapon effect game play in a competitive manner, while also allowing some consistency with pub players, as all there weaponry is potentially allowed. [ Also the white list, the always allowed to be used list could potentially grow over time (as well as shrink) ]

-Lastly, as for what the pick-pan system would actually be. This is open to a lot of debate. As for my two cents - Each class, should be able to ban [ any amount really ] one weapons from each slot, and these bans, would effect that class for BOTH teams. For example: red medic bans - bluteslauger, quick, amputator / blu medic bans - overdose, vacinator, amputator. This would mean that BOTH medics cannot use the bluteslauger, quickfix, vacinator, or amputator.
as for the amount that each slot, and for each class, that should be flexible, and change if need is scene to change.

And finally. This would be a HL pug system. this would not change ESEA bans, This would not change UGC bans, in fact the current competitive scene would not be changed. This would only create a Scene for new competitive players, that is not so threatening. This should be scene as the start of a trickle up, a foundation for a competitive scene. If this is effective, more players would watch competitive games, and want to get better in tf2, and more involved. Not to mention the whole part about Valve being a company . . Simply saying 'play 6's" to new players is not a solution, we need to create a way for new players to enjoy the game as much as we do.

lastly, forgive my grammar and spelling, i do not proof read, and i select the first auto correct option every time with out looking, i hope you enjoyed your read.

1) Start with the UGC whitelist, focus first on all weapons currently banned and let players start to pick/ban those items in pugs. When people consistently ban the ones universally disliked (should be all of the already banned HL ones) those will be the first on the fixing table at valve.

2) Then talk to experienced HL players about weapons that are annoying/could possible be bannable and begin the process again for round 2.

3) Keep going - bloodsire

I like this idea, as for how to carry it out, this becomes more complicated.
-First as tf2 is a free to play game, and if Valve is planing on making tf2 a competitive game, with a community, the default weapons should all be allowed in all forms of game play. So that any new player who plays or watches tf2 will have access to weapons that they see being used. Not to mention how confusing tf2 would become to new competitive players if the set of weapons they had available was never consistent. Allowing for all stock weapons would give a base line, for each class.

-Second, to address the issues the Robin mentioned in that tf2 does not have enough variety in game play; All, yes all, non-stock weapon should be [ maybe] allowed to be picked in pug games. ( should go without saying that while players as a community have already found the set of weapons they are content to ban, and thoughs to allow - but Valve as a company needs a more reliable system, which gives information, not opinion, to them.) Moreover, they need a system which always gives information, by having a pick-ban system, they would be able to continually gather data on what is being ban, and [maybe] see what unlocks when used give an unfair advantage. Also, relying on players for feedback on unlocks and the such is [ retarded ] not a sound system. As players will ALWAYS disagree on what should and should not be allowed.

salamamcer rocket launcher - http://steamcommunity.com/id/Powerpak :3 [matthewgallaugher@gmail.com]