Incorrect. It gives the Demo reliable quick and short lived area control. As the balls don't roll, you know exactly where they are going to land, and going to explode. They can be used for quickly causing damage or area denial to certain places, like a doorway, choke, or control point much like the GL, but when you spam pills at a control point, you don't really know what you'll hit because they may simply roll away...but with the Iron Bomber you know almost exactly where they will detonate. That's a huge upside, especially for high level play, and is equalized by the slight decrease in damage.

The Iron Bomber is probably one of the most balanced weapons Valve has put out in years and I feel its perfect for comp.

http://i.imgur.com/CAzQL13.png

Well ESEA is trying to kill off TF2 and we already screwed the pooch with CEVO so this is nice.

Happy to see you're flexible with your whitelist, though kinda wondering why the Iron Bomber and Quickybomb Launcher are banned.

Allowing the QF mid season was a dumb idea and no one should argue that.

We'll honestly never know how the QF will play out with Kritz counters and conch pushes and such because ESEA basically rushed people to use it for the finals, gave everyone a massively sour taste about it (partly thanks to the casters) and now no will even attempt to try it out again.

The Iron Bomber and Quickybomb are not only not nearly as game changing, but should be allowed at the beginning of the season, not half way through, avoiding all of the problems entirely.

Add the Iron Bomber and Quickybomb Launcher to the whitelist.

Shhh. Just let it happen.

Clothes and some hard cider

Welcome to growing up

Random Thought

What if they made this a 1v1 game mode like Quake? The grappling hook would obviously increase the games overall speed, and the powerups make more classes viable in that kind of situation, while retaining a lot of core strengths (Sniper only being good if you have the aim for it, for example).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDNZelJHsU0

Has anyone tried to send these games to Valve directly? Just curious. The dev team may like to see just what the BFB does in these kinds of games. Could be of value if the rumors of matchmaking are true.

Are there any solid plans for an NA version of this?

I think that what these showmatches really showcased is the need for full list games to be played so we can spot the problems for Valve. And hey, we spotted one: the BFB. No one really knew how it would play out before this, and now we can see clear as day that it needs rebalancing. This is why things like full unlock matchmaking would be good...people don't like some weapons because they're overpowered, show it, and then we can show that to Valve.

Another thing that I keep noticing is a lot of the fear of certain other unlocks seem unfounded. The constantly referenced "Pomson/Short Circuit/Gunslinger" Engie was no where to be seen, and we can see that in the few cases an engie was out, they were little help in comparison to a scout or a solider. I remember a SC/Mini engie coming out in the last showmatch, and while he had his annoying moments, he was never a factor in victory and was usually dispatched quickly. Once again, things like this are why I think we need to see more open whitelist matches.

For now, I think the question goes to class limits. We can't rebalance the weapons ourselves and need to wait on Valve, who have shown willingness to rebalance even stock weapons...so for now, the idea of limiting scout in future open whitelist matches comes up. Should it just be scout? Should it be a single class limit? One per class? Do the addition of all unlocks remove the need for two soldiers, and if not, why does soldier get the special rule?

Dunno. Discuss, lets try to find out. I personally really liked these matches and would like to see them go forward.

Its good to get an outside, pub look at comp....its basically how I've seen it, even though I grew involved with the scene. As I said before, looking down on other people for the classes they play does nothing but alienate people.

It basically comes down to "We need to be nicer to pubbers" and "no, fuck pubbers". There's also a third group whos deluded into thinking pubbers don't just hate comp, which I sadly have to disagree. Before, I posted that on my first "playcomp.tf" bind in a pub, I was told "No, I don't want to be one of those comp assholes". After while, I went server hopping, and guess what? That kind of reply is common. I'm guessing a lot of people talking about this don't actually play pubs, whether they find it unfun or beneath them, doesn't matter, they don't know what people are actually saying.

This is the thing some people just aren't getting. It doesn't matter if YOU or WE think the comp community is toxic, the pub community DOES think that. You can not like it all you want, but without new players coming in, comp TF2 is dead, and pubs are where new comp players come from. Its not fucking hard to be a little nicer to pubbers, to not call people who play non-6s classes shit and skill less, to not take a giant shit every time Highlander is mentioned. You don't need to stroke off every new player, or hold their hand to bring them to the promised land, just be a decent fucking human being for gods sakes. If thats seriously too hard for you, then guess what? You *are* toxic.

I can't believe we have to have a debate on whether calling someone you don't know "nigger" is bad.

And the thread about comp tf2 being toxic starts to go toxic.

I am jacks complete lack of surprise.