I think having a blanket punishment for cheaters can be rough. There's a difference between an 11-year-old cheating and a 21-year-old cheating. That being said, I see little loss either way really, and I don't think anyone is excited at the prospect of playing against cheaters. Just makes the game more aids. Maybe evaluating the severity of the crime (as in have they earned prize money, div, age, actual cheats used etc.) to play a hand in their punishment would be good, but at the same time who cares fuck cheaters might as well perma them lol. Either way I agree 2 years is way too little time regardless of any of the factors I mentioned.

Cheaters should be given long sentences they can have reduced by submitting evidence of themselves reviewing demos, grinding mge, and attending therapy.

grinding mge, the surefire way to stop your cheating habits!

preach, cheating is by definition the worst thing you can do to undermine competitive integrity, and this is a competitive league. the only way non-permabans can work is if these players are being closely scrutinized and monitored once they're allowed to play again, and i don't think rgl or the anticheat team has the resources for that

as a not member of rgl i could be wrong but i'm pretty sure they do this. soapy mentioned how people only suspected howard and he had to record every scrim and match and show his pc's processes. could be a bit different though cuz howard is a lot higher profile and in invite so maybe rgl would care less abt elijah because he's playing adv?

Crazy how lenient punishments for cheating are in the tf2 community. In almost every other game, cheating leads to a lifetime ban

how many active players do we have these days that previously cheated and are currently playing? is it actually a lot or just a handful?

ESEA enforces a 1 year ban policy.

On a different note people change when I was younger than 10 years old I cheated in Halo 1 without facing any repercussions at the time. But, if the punishment for such an offense were to be a permanent ban, such as with VAC, is it still reasonable to hold me accountable for an action that I committed over 15 years ago when I was just a child?

I think there's a not-insignificant number of people who have been banned for cheating in the past that play now (at top level) and nobody thinks they're cheating. Most notable cases off the top of my head for 6s would be kev & nyxi (banned in UGC). I believe yight/circa as well was strongly believed to have cheated at one point because of their proximity to bullet/roxanne/etc, but was never banned because ESEA.

There's also other stuff such as being banned for spy scripts (mostly highlander players, some have played 6s though) in league matches, and of course instances of people cheating in pubs (habib).

Notably though, all the people above were not invite once unbanned, and so I imagine their rise was more believable. I imagine if somebody was unbanned and then immediately played invite, people would complain more.

elijah is annoying

I feel like, I cheated when I was like 12/13 because it was fun, and I got my VAC on bo2 for modding a zombies lobby with my friends, or banned on gta for money glitches, but would I do the same now? Most people who cheat at a young age should probably be given lenience compared to say, 18+ doing it.

Overall, a one year ban is good enough, if evidence shows they keep on cheating during the ban, what’s the likelihood of them cheating after the ban expires? Obviously the best thing to do after that is perma if caught but if someone has genuinely stopped then fair play.

no but guys next time azn is unbanned he wont cheat anymore pinky promise

he told me he wouldn't because he has hot gf and good job so why would he cheat?

if people that cheated once were permabanned like you say we would have missed players that reformed and became top players in their regions like thalash and habib.

anyone who cheated during league play should get a lifetime ban, stop trying to dilute the discussion with completely irrelevant counterexamples

I agree with springrolls. Maybe 4 years would be better than the current 2?

It's not really that deep. 99% of people who catch a cheating ban will continue to cheat after getting unbanned. Just because one in one hundred of them turn out to be a non cheating invite level player doesn't overrule the fact that 99% of them will continue to cheat and ruin league play. Permanent bans are easily justifiable imo.

anyone caught cheating in official matches/scrims/mixes/pugs should get instantly perma banned (etf2l admins did state that perma bans can overturned with "good behavior" and time.)
2 years for cheating in a pub, mge or getting vac'd sounds about right.

1 or 2 years is fine but once unbanned the previous cheater should be under more scrutiny like forced to upload all his demos, kind of like on probation

Congratulations to night terror for winning etf2l low!

and to broda

at the very least it should be 5 years imo, 2 years goes by so fast

definitely agree with permabans though, the problem is we pussy foot around and let them have the hope of playing in the future, so they stick around trying to find ppl to scrim and cheat against (should be stricter about banning them from the tftv/rgl scrim discords as well, fuck accidentally scrimming The Cheater Team after ur scrim is cancelled)

Elijah is also incredibly racist, homophobic and transphobic btw. No reason he should be here. And btw his circlejerk has been ringing his alts (which he cheats on) all this time, and I literally told an admin about it and have seen nothing come from it.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/822258442592845884/1098729634159403130/gay.gif

i think elijah is still cheating

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1789605421?t=39m55s

if there was ever a case to ban elijah further it would be that i wouldnt have to see 20 more pages of back and forth hackusation arguments on tftv

the most regular aim lmfao

i like when he tries to shoot a stationary sticky 5 seconds later and missed by around 2 crosshair lengths

yes :3

They were better, ggs to them, I don't think it matters that he cheated or not, would have lost either way (maybe not on product, but they are better on 5cp maps), they played well as a team, and we were a bit sloppy, the preassure got to us at the end. We only trash talked to play mental games as a 'last resort', and we don't hate anyone on that roaster. Was a fun season, and I hope it's not the end for yakuza, we enjoyed every moment of it. We made friends, and improved a lot, so ultimately It doesn't matter that we got 2nd place, It's still a great achivement.

- yakuza_member