replace roamer with pyro

HOPEFULLY they will be balanced and not need to be banned, as well as all the other bans becoming more fair in day four.

But, no promises I guess.

The last few seasons have been really lenient on bans. They should be banned at least until the end of this season, which will take some weeks. As long as they don't turn out to be the Pyro's version of crit-a-cola, they'll be unbanned.

All of them will be tested (and can easily be done with custom whitelists) but should be banned by default for ongoing seasons.

only way you'll really see use of them is if "the dragon's fury" is really good on its own. the jetpack/gas cans are secondaries so they won't be that useful with the other flamethrowers since they have trouble without a damage dealing secondary

The airblast change giving it more strength might make uber denials stronger

http://etf2l.org/season-28-rules/

The new weapons will be however checked thoroughly in preparation for ETF2L Season 29.

Time to just add Pyro to the whitelist and be done with it. No need to go item for item, just add the entire class.

I really disagree with the usual idea that anything new should immediately be added to the whitelist, as this leaves the same game relatively stale for the casual spectator (me). Now, I'm not saying that we should leave OP weapons in, but there should be testing concerning the new weapons.

why do we call weapons op before we even see them in game

pls dont ban banana
i want to slinB

New items should be banned until they can be properly tested.
New items can and have influenced match results and the worst time to test new items is in the middle of the season.

What makes you think there isn't going to be weapon testing for 6's?

Keep in mind day 4 will likely center around ranked mode. This could influence how whitelists are treated heavily.

i have a feeling they are going to add some ban/save mechanic for unlocks in in game mm that is going to transition to custom matches in 6s and hl. kinda like in 7v7 format.

just a feeling

You say that but then again you didn't have to experience the Natascha being allowed day 1.

I agree with this idea, but there's a problem with allowing it in.

If a new item remains unbanned from the start, but then after a week or two of testing points to it being unfair or unbalanced and we want to ban it, then the week it remained in play kinda invalidates any matches played during that time because it was allowed at the time.

This is similar to S15 of ESEA where the Quick Fix got its major rework mid-season and instantly became the meta before the revision to ban it post-season. Because it was already a part of the game, banning it later on in the season would be unfair to the first week it was used.

So we have two options regarding new weapon(s):
• Leave them in through the rest of the season, balanced or not;
• Ban them out the gate and after the season has played out, review its utility/fairness whathaveyou regarding weapon bans.

Agreed, however how long does the proper testing usually last? Personally, I would love to see the new pyro and weapons by playoffs time where everyone can see the new pyro in play competitively, which will 1. Bring some new viewers to the comp scene and 2. Create a fresh new meta

cant wait to bomb med and get air blasted by a flying pyro

isn't natascha still allowed lol

on that subject ban machina and natascha thanks

secondary banana is gunna make heavy bananapootgod never die

As far as ESEA goes, having Tri constantly go back and forth with ESEA would be way too out of the way and ESEA would most likely take a long while anyway. As far as ESEA is concerned, it'd probably be better to just have the unlocks banned to keep the game consistent. I do agree with Jarlow, but I think working with ESEA would not be that flexible (I would love to be wrong).

On the other hand, hopefully ETF2L can ban these weapons and run some playtests to see how these unlocks will play. It would be a major benefit to actually see these unlocks have use in competitive play even if it only slightly expands our audience. As long as the unlocks don't prove to be extremely unfun to play against.

maybe get some top teams to run pyro with the new weapons for one match and see how it turns out

Yeah not to keen on reliving the QF bullshit or going farther back, the Nat-pocalypse. Its not fun for anyone, specs included.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=OalWDhYfdeg

While I do know I no next to nothing about how meta works or comp tf2 in general (people who were unfortunate enough to be in my pugchamp lobbies would know) isn't this a bit similar to what we have now, stalemates that usually go on for 3-8 minutes?

pyro jarate is bad

The slowdown was a lot more ridiculous before.

Difference being is these lasted the full 10 min to time out, on every last, the entire weekend. The average game time for that lan was like 50 min or something stupid with 80% of that being last holds. Yes last can be bad, but thats nothing compared to what s14 lan was.

Changing the topic a little, what are the chances the flyro jetback is so well balanced and fits so nicely into the 6s meta that it necessitates a 10 man 5v5 comp mode? 5 man teams feels so right for a team based game with maps sized the way they are just like in cs/dota/whathaveyou. Not to mention less comms

im pretty sure the entire format will not change just because of one pyro weapon

if it takes an unlock to make a class viable, then that class is still inherently flawed.