While I have my disagreements with your pros/cons list, this is by far the best way to help improve things. Follow Kev's lead.

https://i.imgur.com/jREom75.jpg

I believe something that could help the pug system is possibly daily events that happen at given times and rotate throughout the week to accomodate to player's time tables and allow them to play.
These events would be posted on faceit or discord like 12-24h before it happens and it would let people know that players would be able to join and play the game with other people of similar skills, for example have an event that is invite pug at 4:30pm (timezone), or include a small ladder that would reward the players who win said event a prize.
My thought process behind this idea is that invite players would be notified beforehand the details of the event, in doing so it would allow pugs to be more selective since these events would be locked to invite players that can join to show their participation.
This system can be used to make different events across all skill levels that promote fun, competitiveness and even less standard game mode/maps.

didn't aim do this for like a month and have multiple brain aneurysms live on stream

also in what way will this help to "improve things", it seems that a lot of the issues are simply due to the nature of the site (i.e., no classes/fatkids) or stuff that the devs literally cannot change (like the sound beeping and stuff)
like are you really that stubborn that you legitimately don't believe in the feedback/complaints and shit that like literally everyone but you has said about the site? obviously it's your project or whatever so you're going to be arguing for it to the ends of the earth even if it's objectively worse, but you have to realize that it can't just be a coincidence that all these people have given the same criticism and feedback like clearly there's something up lol

also i feel like even if kev did this you wouldn't actually be convinced and it wouldn't lead to any real change

Any time ive seen feedback get posted, or a question about faceit get asked, b4nny either responds with 'its your problem not the systems' or 'your attitude is wrong', and the other admins such as twiikuu respond with 'sorry, we want to make it better but faceit themselves have to change their website'. Seems kinda pointless for anyone to say 'we appreciate feedback its the only way to improve' when half of it is dismissed or simply impossible to implement without help from faceit themselves.

how r u gonna role play and give yourself and your buddies titles like CEO and COO when it's not a corporation or even a business and then even when your role playing u guys dont do shit. I stopped playing and paying attention to faceit like 6 weeks ago and I'm glad to have came back to see that absolutely nothing was changed. What happened to "listening to feedback?" Oh that's right, bc u guys really can't change anything (there will never be a fat kid or add up to a class system) and the fundamental issue is that faceit is just a csgo website and tf2 shouldn't be forced to fit with it.

The proof is in the player count

I don't think you even need major changes from Faceit in order to (at least partially) fix the whole "good player gets stuck on medic" thing. All you gotta do is implement a rule in TF2PL stating that if you don't play the class requested by the captain, you could get a ban. You don't even have to make that a rule for beginner or amateur, just for advanced. There are definitely changes that Faceit should make to ensure easier enforcement of a rule like that, like more detailed logs, but I think it'd still be helpful to have right now.

Unfortunately, everything else requires some input from Faceit. We need more than 12 players in the draft if there are more than 12 available, and we need a sub system. There are a bunch of other nice things that should be made available, but I think those two are the ones getting bitched about the most.

More than anything else, there needs to be some guarantee of iteration from Faceit itself. You're dealing with a community that has spent 10 years getting jerked around by game devs. Without visible progress, there is absolutely no way the people who have spent years playing this game are gonna wait around to get fucked over by devs in their pug system, too.

IM REVIVING GARBUGLIO PUGS

REAL ONES FROM OG TIMES WILL KNOW

PM ME IF U WONT GIVE ME ANOTHER IRL TUMOR AND WANNA USE THE TRAINING REGIMENT THAT MADE PLAYERS SUCB AS DELPO AND YOMPS

maybe /s if the demand isn't there

edit: groups dead no one wants to play smh

PLEASE

i'll only play medic i sware

I honestly don't see faceit putting dev time into fixing these problems. tf2pl itself has nothing new on the faceit website from the old ladder stuff, and since none of these problems can really be fixed by hacking stuff on top faceit really needs to show they can provide updates. pugchamp has development problems too i know, but at least those have a chance of improving

invite me to inhouses :)...

Please link me in-house groups so I can get fatkidded until I quit the game and not have to play faceit :)

I've talked to you about this in your stream before but.

A lot of people want to play pugs for fun, being forced to play certain classes or being forced to play with certain people is not fun for a lot of people. The majority of people who play thsi game play for fun so if they arent having fun they just stop playing.

having high im and invite players on pugchamp and lower level players playing on faceit doesn't "fracture" anything what

If this game was my source of income I may be more inclined to forgo fun but it isn’t. Max is right. If people don’t have fun they just stop playing. Also fuck off with “fracturing the community”. Pugs have never been more fractured than they are right now. For me personally, I absolutely adore this game. I’ve given almost 9k hours of my life to this game and I still love it as much as I did the day I first installed and played 2fort engineer. That being said, it’s something I play for fun. Other people are like me and have either stopped pugging completely or gone to in-house pugs to have their fun. It’s not their fault for wanting to have fun. People have tried faceit, given feedback, and we’re still at this point. Either make changes or be content with barely any pugs. #longlivepugchamp

https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/dota2_gamepedia/8/89/Jug_deny_02.mp3

ITT people now realizing that b4nny is stubborn

*ahem*
https://www.faceit.com/en/inv/hmmdSN4

I know far fetched but what if there was a way that by tracking faceit stats and looking at your heals, faceit could track when the last time you played med. Given that like if you haven't played med in the last 6 games you would be forced onto med. If you didn't play med your teammates could report you. If two people on the same team haven't played med recently it would be like a team decision, whoever the better player is should play combat. This does sound pretty retarded, but it's just a thought.

u guys who r barely breaking 50% winrate seasons in IM complaining aboutu having to lpay with other people ur skill level r being so delusional

back when tf2mix was a thing when the lords u look up today had to grind that website cuz we'd get fatkidded for a while in pugna until we finally learned how to play with SOME impact in game without having an abysmal k/d

have ur fun in ur lower level pug cuz its not going to get anybetter climbing and if u are a competitive spirit just try to do individual impvement as in aim and some sorta brainsense and take it to ur scrims and matches

and yes we had to be forced to play with other people

i want faceit to succeed because twikkuu is a nice person that puts in a lot of work for tf2 and he deserves :(

Banny I told u this shit would never work for the mid im to invite range but u didn't listen and now look. The people know

there are alts because advanced is garbage has basic functional problems and high open to high invite players all in one div. even then pugs only happen once a day
people wouldn't have a reason to alt if the platform functioned better

wait but I just want to be in the best pugs right now?? I am the perfect tf2 player and the only reason I don't win every pug is because my team is garbage! They're the reason I'm doing 150 dpm!

no one understands that there is no point in this game that you aren't grinding if you wanna get better.

also this twikkuu is actually so nice and works so hard on this :/

I don't think the solution is to give up after 3 months and further fracture the community. See if b4nny and faceit are serious, then make your descision. The rush to judgement doesn't help anyone, it only hurts the community.
If in a month or two (6 months since release), these problems still exist, then I'd support killing TF2pl. For all we know (we know nothing, due to a lack of communication from faceit), they could be working on solving some of these problems.

b4nny should probably respond to reasonable criticism instead of just spectating. This entire thread would never have been started if we knew what faceit and b4nnys intentions were for all the problems people have now brought up.
What did Kev list in his pros and cons that you specifically disagree with?
Does Faceit ever plan on implementing a sub system or fatkids? What about a class system? Or what about the divisions? If the community knew the answer to those 4 questions, people wouldn't have to speculate anymore.

All we have right now is one side, anti-faceit, sharing their opinion. We have no one working on TF2PL or faceit sharing theirs. People need to know what b4nny/twikku/faceit think

I actually played faceit before tf2pl came in and the games were decent most of the time(when you wouldn't get matched[your team is all randoms,yes] against ex-prem players and their stacks,looking at you jackylegs).
But there always has been times where you either get the stronger player on his main + 2 dudes that know how to position themselves/doing things by the book and you win
Or you get either 1 sniper main permaoffclassing spamming allchat/gamers fresh out of casual and lose anyway,it's how their system works which doesn't seem to get fixed unless you straightup start excluding certain people from playing.
And regarding fatkids,this is still based on the perception of the captain at the time and doesn't always reflect the state of leaderboard.If for the EU,raymon gets fatkidded - imagine the incentives for the other people to add up.It's still all relative someone is going to fit more into a certain draft composition,look like an official team and viceversa
With the right teams,a player could grow and there won't be much difference in comparison with the other choices.You may get owned but you help him stand up and guide him in the right direction. By the proper maincalling,he would get better results(of course it depends on the person).It's naive to expect him to do well with 0 communication and complete indifference. If you don't think that someone has the necessary skills to play in the comp environment then give him a hand instead of being a condescending douchebag.
And still picking your best team doesn't guarantee a victory,lots of things can go wrong if your opposing team is of a nice quality. As kev already mentioned before,there is a significant advantage if you pick first/or second on pugchamp that can throw balanced games out of the window.

I agree that faceit is a worse platform but i also believer that pugging on faceit will provide benefits long term. With that said there was this post which I think sums it up quite nicely on a previous post.

http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/860369/bring-back-pugchamp

One problem with faceit is that they can’t ban obvious alts unless they know what the main account is. They have no way of searching up ips on their system so the only way to get someone banned is to message a faceit admin the alt and the main account

faceit is a csgo system and will never work for tf2 if you are unwillingly to make some changes to the system like class picking

People wouldn't be smurfing in the first place if advanced functioned correctly.
You can spend hours trying to chase down alts, or you can solve the problem that is causing people to want to create alts in the first place. Everyone I know who's gone to or is in advanced has always replied the same way when I say "I want to try advanced."

"No you don't"

Why does advanced have the no falling out of the division enabled.