We have been looking for feedback in regards to the map koth_clearcut and it would be appreciated if you put down your criticism. If you already have tested the map before, please let us know what your thoughts on the map were and what we could do to improve it.
If there is by chance you can also get a group to test it or if you have already done so please put down your experiences of rollouts, what positions worked best for you and what was the general things that you liked or disliked about it playing against others.
Link to map: https://tf2maps.net/threads/clearcut.35559/
Map Maker: SturmTrpr
We have been looking for feedback in regards to the map koth_clearcut and it would be appreciated if you put down your criticism. If you already have tested the map before, please let us know what your thoughts on the map were and what we could do to improve it.
If there is by chance you can also get a group to test it or if you have already done so please put down your experiences of rollouts, what positions worked best for you and what was the general things that you liked or disliked about it playing against others.
Link to map: https://tf2maps.net/threads/clearcut.35559/
Map Maker: SturmTrpr
Hi, I played this map in a test mix with beater. You can find the VOD here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/235844926 (starts at 15:00 but sadly Beater wasn't streaming with audio so feedback during the stream was lost)
I'm by no means an experienced player (2 seasons of being on the lower half of ETF2L Mid) but here's some main things I noticed + remember from what was discussed during the stream. The version we played was koth_clearcut_b4. Screenshots used in this thread are from the most recent version.
The first thing that's hard not to notice in the VOD is the length of the mid fight. The first mid fight lasted over a minute.
I think there's 3 main reasons for this:
- Very open point
- Easy to disengage and wait for an arrow behind cover
- Hard for soldiers to engage with a jump due to lack of walls/objects to jump from
The open point is fine imo (unless sniper turns out to be problematic, we didn't run sniper at any point). It's mostly the other 2 things that need to be dealt with.
The strat for this mid seemed to be spamming and hoping for 2 picks so your scouts can bot across point. The soldiers tended to sit on the sloped roofs and spam because jumping in on such an open map would more than likely result in a feed. Scouts have an easier time denying, medic/demo can spread out across the open area easily to avoid damage and spot your bomb easily.
Sitting on the roofs and spamming also seemed to be pretty effective due to the cover that is provided on your side of the map. The most common example seemed to be soldiers sitting on right roof and then just backing off to the end of the sloped roof, using it as cover to wait for an arrow https://imgur.com/a/ggcUc (first picture)
It didn't seem worth to commit to hurt people because you'd have to fully commit to clean them up and they probably get arrowed before you reach them
Proposed solution: Make right roof less sloped. The other 2 spots didn't seem too problematic
https://imgur.com/a/ggcUc (Blue in 2nd picture)
The other reason for the slow mid ties into this as well. There's few places where soldiers can get a good bomb going. The right roof has a wall for a fast horizontal jump to get in the medic's face but that seems to be about it
proposed solution: Add more walls/objects for easier and varied bombs
One example would be the wall on right roof. Another would be the rock on left side
https://imgur.com/a/ggcUc (Red in 2nd and 3rd picture)
A couple of other things I remember from the VOD that got muted:
-There seemed to be no need to forward hold. Getting into position for it takes quite long and you don't gain that much from it since holding high ground on mid seemed quite strong already. This is also why I can't really offer any feedback on anything that isn't the mid point. We were basically never there. Hopefully more test games can be held where sniper/forward holds are tested
-You can get stuck walking up left side logs on 2 spots (imgur album 4th picture)
Hi, I played this map in a test mix with beater. You can find the VOD here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/235844926 (starts at 15:00 but sadly Beater wasn't streaming with audio so feedback during the stream was lost)
I'm by no means an experienced player (2 seasons of being on the lower half of ETF2L Mid) but here's some main things I noticed + remember from what was discussed during the stream. The version we played was koth_clearcut_b4. Screenshots used in this thread are from the most recent version.
The first thing that's hard not to notice in the VOD is the length of the mid fight. The first mid fight lasted over a minute.
I think there's 3 main reasons for this:
- Very open point
- Easy to disengage and wait for an arrow behind cover
- Hard for soldiers to engage with a jump due to lack of walls/objects to jump from
The open point is fine imo (unless sniper turns out to be problematic, we didn't run sniper at any point). It's mostly the other 2 things that need to be dealt with.
The strat for this mid seemed to be spamming and hoping for 2 picks so your scouts can bot across point. The soldiers tended to sit on the sloped roofs and spam because jumping in on such an open map would more than likely result in a feed. Scouts have an easier time denying, medic/demo can spread out across the open area easily to avoid damage and spot your bomb easily.
Sitting on the roofs and spamming also seemed to be pretty effective due to the cover that is provided on your side of the map. The most common example seemed to be soldiers sitting on right roof and then just backing off to the end of the sloped roof, using it as cover to wait for an arrow https://imgur.com/a/ggcUc (first picture)
It didn't seem worth to commit to hurt people because you'd have to fully commit to clean them up and they probably get arrowed before you reach them
Proposed solution: Make right roof less sloped. The other 2 spots didn't seem too problematic
https://imgur.com/a/ggcUc (Blue in 2nd picture)
The other reason for the slow mid ties into this as well. There's few places where soldiers can get a good bomb going. The right roof has a wall for a fast horizontal jump to get in the medic's face but that seems to be about it
proposed solution: Add more walls/objects for easier and varied bombs
One example would be the wall on right roof. Another would be the rock on left side
https://imgur.com/a/ggcUc (Red in 2nd and 3rd picture)
A couple of other things I remember from the VOD that got muted:
-There seemed to be no need to forward hold. Getting into position for it takes quite long and you don't gain that much from it since holding high ground on mid seemed quite strong already. This is also why I can't really offer any feedback on anything that isn't the mid point. We were basically never there. Hopefully more test games can be held where sniper/forward holds are tested
-You can get stuck walking up left side logs on 2 spots (imgur album 4th picture)
TobHi, I played this map in a test mix with beater. You can find the VOD here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/235844926 (starts at 15:00 but sadly Beater wasn't streaming with audio so feedback during the stream was lost)
I'm by no means an experienced player (2 seasons of being on the lower half of ETF2L Mid) but here's some main things I noticed + remember from what was discussed during the stream. The version we played was koth_clearcut_b4. Screenshots used in this thread are from the most recent version.
The first thing that's hard not to notice in the VOD is the length of the mid fight. The first mid fight lasted over a minute.
I think there's 3 main reasons for this:
- Very open point
- Easy to disengage and wait for an arrow behind cover
- Hard for soldiers to engage with a jump due to lack of walls/objects to jump from
The open point is fine imo (unless sniper turns out to be problematic, we didn't run sniper at any point). It's mostly the other 2 things that need to be dealt with.
The strat for this mid seemed to be spamming and hoping for 2 picks so your scouts can bot across point. The soldiers tended to sit on the sloped roofs and spam because jumping in on such an open map would more than likely result in a feed. Scouts have an easier time denying, medic/demo can spread out across the open area easily to avoid damage and spot your bomb easily.
Sitting on the roofs and spamming also seemed to be pretty effective due to the cover that is provided on your side of the map. The most common example seemed to be soldiers sitting on right roof and then just backing off to the end of the sloped roof, using it as cover to wait for an arrow https://imgur.com/a/ggcUc (first picture)
It didn't seem worth to commit to hurt people because you'd have to fully commit to clean them up and they probably get arrowed before you reach them
Proposed solution: Make right roof less sloped. The other 2 spots didn't seem too problematic
https://imgur.com/a/ggcUc (Blue in 2nd picture)
The other reason for the slow mid ties into this as well. There's few places where soldiers can get a good bomb going. The right roof has a wall for a fast horizontal jump to get in the medic's face but that seems to be about it
proposed solution: Add more walls/objects for easier and varied bombs
One example would be the wall on right roof. Another would be the rock on left side
https://imgur.com/a/ggcUc (Red in 2nd and 3rd picture)
A couple of other things I remember from the VOD that got muted:
-There seemed to be no need to forward hold. Getting into position for it takes quite long and you don't gain that much from it since holding high ground on mid seemed quite strong already. This is also why I can't really offer any feedback on anything that isn't the mid point. We were basically never there. Hopefully more test games can be held where sniper/forward holds are tested
-You can get stuck walking up left side logs on 2 spots (imgur album 4th picture)
Thank you so much for your feedback, we will take all of it into consideration for the next update!
[quote=Tob]Hi, I played this map in a test mix with beater. You can find the VOD here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/235844926 (starts at 15:00 but sadly Beater wasn't streaming with audio so feedback during the stream was lost)
I'm by no means an experienced player (2 seasons of being on the lower half of ETF2L Mid) but here's some main things I noticed + remember from what was discussed during the stream. The version we played was koth_clearcut_b4. Screenshots used in this thread are from the most recent version.
The first thing that's hard not to notice in the VOD is the length of the mid fight. The first mid fight lasted over a minute.
I think there's 3 main reasons for this:
- Very open point
- Easy to disengage and wait for an arrow behind cover
- Hard for soldiers to engage with a jump due to lack of walls/objects to jump from
The open point is fine imo (unless sniper turns out to be problematic, we didn't run sniper at any point). It's mostly the other 2 things that need to be dealt with.
The strat for this mid seemed to be spamming and hoping for 2 picks so your scouts can bot across point. The soldiers tended to sit on the sloped roofs and spam because jumping in on such an open map would more than likely result in a feed. Scouts have an easier time denying, medic/demo can spread out across the open area easily to avoid damage and spot your bomb easily.
Sitting on the roofs and spamming also seemed to be pretty effective due to the cover that is provided on your side of the map. The most common example seemed to be soldiers sitting on right roof and then just backing off to the end of the sloped roof, using it as cover to wait for an arrow https://imgur.com/a/ggcUc (first picture)
It didn't seem worth to commit to hurt people because you'd have to fully commit to clean them up and they probably get arrowed before you reach them
Proposed solution: Make right roof less sloped. The other 2 spots didn't seem too problematic
https://imgur.com/a/ggcUc (Blue in 2nd picture)
The other reason for the slow mid ties into this as well. There's few places where soldiers can get a good bomb going. The right roof has a wall for a fast horizontal jump to get in the medic's face but that seems to be about it
proposed solution: Add more walls/objects for easier and varied bombs
One example would be the wall on right roof. Another would be the rock on left side
https://imgur.com/a/ggcUc (Red in 2nd and 3rd picture)
A couple of other things I remember from the VOD that got muted:
-There seemed to be no need to forward hold. Getting into position for it takes quite long and you don't gain that much from it since holding high ground on mid seemed quite strong already. This is also why I can't really offer any feedback on anything that isn't the mid point. We were basically never there. Hopefully more test games can be held where sniper/forward holds are tested
-You can get stuck walking up left side logs on 2 spots (imgur album 4th picture)[/quote]
Thank you so much for your feedback, we will take all of it into consideration for the next update!