very true Copper must bring back tf2online

there's a lack of high quality pugs in america too. rgl pugs are extremely hit or miss, sometimes people are trying, sometimes people are genuinely trying to lose. there's never any medics and the adding up and picking progress means sometimes you have to wait like 15 minutes between a pug compared to tf2pickup where the next pug sometimes starts instantly

low div pugs are especially bad. nobody tries, most people want to offclass only, they take even longer to start because you have to wait for a pug runner (the easiest job on planet earth, btw) to decide they want to run some, then you have to sit in an empty vc until 12 people join, all for there to be a random chance you have to play med for someone who's completely silent and feeding

i really, really want to play competitive fun pugs but it seems so bleak

pugs should be played on a website instead of inhouse discord servers.
idk if Copper is around anymore, but yes, tf2online should comeback.

I honestly enjoy playing every pug with wonder,such a cool player and person

ngl most of the pugs on tf2pickup.eu are low div pugs.
If higher div players join to play it they usually don't give a fuck about the game or they aren't happy with their teammates being so called "balanced" to play with them since tf2pickup.eu uses skill points for each player considering their div. But let me be honest, there were a lot of games being played 5-0 with one team having 2 prem players and 4 other being open/low div players against some team with d2/d1 players. No point of trying if u will get drafted into a losing team most of the time if not always.

please ban wonder holy fuck

edit: as of time of writing this freak has been in (/ruined) 60.7% of pugs on the site
find me a single man apart from him that doesn't have a complaint playing with him on their team

^

if its the same wonder from NA i am so so sorry u have to experience that mans rotted fucking brain

its definetely NOT the same wonder

Ban the Pole. There can only be room for one of us.
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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/565738868704411648/1256866016672092253/Brain.gif?ex=66825331&is=668101b1&hm=d397021865c15a601430a8515f1313b285256a93aadd9f0c527745cba0633af6&;

From my POV as a top D2ish player I hate pugs. I never feel like I ever learn anything from these games. When I did play, I was winning most my games in the same fashion you describe. I'd love to play with people who I could learn from but I have no way of doing that with the current pug system where you are either rolled or the one doing the rolling. Any time I get the urge to grind again, I play 1 or 2 of these games and my entire mood shifts to just giving up on putting time in. Most people I end up playing with are either my own div or below who have the same amount of knowledge as me or worse, I can't get to know people above me either. I feel it is really hard to put your name out unless you get into the scene through some1 who is already fairly known in the community. And honestly, I cant blame those who don't want to try as hard, I would not be motivated to take it seriously when I play against "x" open player. But when I do play against prem or even d1 I want to do even better.

As much as I agree prem-d1 needs their own space to practice we cant exclude those who want to get good fully either. I think a div requirement of d2 with NO EXCEPTIONS needs to be in place or one that's even higher level depending how this would work out in practice.

On a different note, I never had the feeling of needing pugs or BEING GOOD ENOUGH to even take part in them until I reached D2.

although tf2.online/pugchamp is far from perfect, it's still the best system to encourage players to tryhard (if you have captains who try to win).
If you don't play seriously or just not good enough you won't get picked.
The biggest problem is circle jerks who only pick their friends regardless of skill level but it should be fixable with proper moderation, and even with those problems at least some pugs on tf2.online were high quality pugs compared to the nonexistent quality of tf2pickup.eu.

with etf2l having super long off seasons (4 months in this case??) i feel like theres no place to play the game other than tf2pickup which sucks because of the skill disparity and MANY individuals who seemingly do not give a fuck about winning and inhouse mixes which are very rare and also require you to be in a circlejerk to participate, which 99% of players are not in

personally ive got no desire to even launch the game atm because theres not really a place for me to improve as tekszi said, it leaves the people who (with enough practice) could be playing top level tf2, but are restricted due to that practice not being readily availabe in a kind of limbo of being kinda good but kinda bad which is really demotivating for "up and comers", which seems to be the majority of players atm. really sucks cause i love the game and i love 6s but theres not really a real place to play that outside of the 4ish months we have actual seasons in etf2l.

contrasting to what tekszi said, i feel like when tf2online was about and id be picked personally it was the fastest way for me to improve because it was very easy to practice fundamentals when you have 5 prem players telling you what youre doing wrong, and you cant really get that anywhere else

i agree wonder should be banned but playing devils advocate i would say its unfair to just smite him out of existence because if hes banned from pugs, and he definitely wont get a team, hes forced to sit and play lobbies 8 hours a day which is a fate i would not wish upon my worst enemy

Just to clarify my comment from earlier, I was not talking about tf2online, rather tf2pickup. I fully agree that tf2online was way better, and I share your opinion in that playing with prem players constantly was a much better experience and more worthwhile, heck it was even something I always wanted to be a part of ever since starting out many many years ago. Even for B pugs on tf2online, it taught me much more than these pickup games ever did.

the tf2online experience was a lot better for improving since the quality of games were generally much higher compared to tf2pickupeu, where the crazy skill disparity and constant trolls (due to the first come first serve system), gives very little room/reason for ppl to try and actually improve

wonder my goat wtf u mean ban him