Hey, I'm leading and maincalling for a team that's playing RGL Main 6s next season and while I'm comfortable with my 5cp maincalling for the most part, I find myself not knowing what to do occasionally on koth maps (specifically product and clearcut, the maps in the pool). I could use some advice and ideas for a broader array of strategies I can use.
Specifically, I could use help with these scenarios:
-We lose a fight, our med dies, theirs lives and has uber. We 4 man sac but it fails, and we have uber now. What next? Do we just take a teamfight and hope for the best? If so, how can we create and leverage an advantage to help us win that fight?
-When are sniper/spy offclasses appropriate when you don't hold the point? Should we avoid those altogether? They tend to run a lot of time off the clock but are great for breaking holds when they work.
-We're taking a teamfight and a soldier jumps behind us. On mids (especially on Clearcut) when this happens our strat is generally to rush the other team and win the 6v5 before the soldier can rotate back around, this tends to work out well most of the time. We've been struggling when this happens while we are pushing the point, though. What are some good ideas to counter this?
-Forward holds on Clearcut: there doesn't seem to be a good way to set up a hard contain like the one that exists on product, but I still think having some sort of forward pressure is a good idea if you can pull it off without bleeding multiple players. What are people's theorycrafts with this so far? How are they working out?
Hey, I'm leading and maincalling for a team that's playing RGL Main 6s next season and while I'm comfortable with my 5cp maincalling for the most part, I find myself not knowing what to do occasionally on koth maps (specifically product and clearcut, the maps in the pool). I could use some advice and ideas for a broader array of strategies I can use.
[u]Specifically, I could use help with these scenarios:[/u]
-We lose a fight, our med dies, theirs lives and has uber. We 4 man sac but it fails, and we have uber now. What next? Do we just take a teamfight and hope for the best? If so, how can we create and leverage an advantage to help us win that fight?
-When are sniper/spy offclasses appropriate when you don't hold the point? Should we avoid those altogether? They tend to run a lot of time off the clock but are great for breaking holds when they work.
-We're taking a teamfight and a soldier jumps behind us. On mids (especially on Clearcut) when this happens our strat is generally to rush the other team and win the 6v5 before the soldier can rotate back around, this tends to work out well most of the time. We've been struggling when this happens while we are pushing the point, though. What are some good ideas to counter this?
-Forward holds on Clearcut: there doesn't seem to be a good way to set up a hard contain like the one that exists on product, but I still think having some sort of forward pressure is a good idea if you can pull it off without bleeding multiple players. What are people's theorycrafts with this so far? How are they working out?
1.) exchanging is normally the play here because it takes less time than 4 maning over and over again to get the force and has a higher success rate. exchange and try to push them back with ur uber so u have better positioning in the post, any player exchanges during or after the uber are good for ur team because u have faster spawners. make sure all of ur players are healthy before u do it and ur flank might wana do something behind the uber as well.
2.) you probably shouldnt run sniper when you do not have the point because the other team can just play the angles so ur sniper doesnt matter. when u do have the point, especially on a map like product, sniper is very powerful if he hits his shots because he can deny literally the entire map. on maps like clearcut and bagel i do not think sniper is very viable.
3.) when u are pushing the point on clearcut and the enemy soldier jumps behind you i would say that the right play is to turn around and kill him because his respawn timer is like 12 seconds or something when his team has the point.
4.) demo watches left, soldiers watch the 2 left doors med plays in the saw room scouts do whatever. there is no real forward hold that is as good as it is on product or even bagel, but its more like a forward pressure. especially if u have full ad u can kinda catch them off guard with an uber if they just take yard thinking nothing will happen.
good luck
1.) exchanging is normally the play here because it takes less time than 4 maning over and over again to get the force and has a higher success rate. exchange and try to push them back with ur uber so u have better positioning in the post, any player exchanges during or after the uber are good for ur team because u have faster spawners. make sure all of ur players are healthy before u do it and ur flank might wana do something behind the uber as well.
2.) you probably shouldnt run sniper when you do not have the point because the other team can just play the angles so ur sniper doesnt matter. when u do have the point, especially on a map like product, sniper is very powerful if he hits his shots because he can deny literally the entire map. on maps like clearcut and bagel i do not think sniper is very viable.
3.) when u are pushing the point on clearcut and the enemy soldier jumps behind you i would say that the right play is to turn around and kill him because his respawn timer is like 12 seconds or something when his team has the point.
4.) demo watches left, soldiers watch the 2 left doors med plays in the saw room scouts do whatever. there is no real forward hold that is as good as it is on product or even bagel, but its more like a forward pressure. especially if u have full ad u can kinda catch them off guard with an uber if they just take yard thinking nothing will happen.
good luck
lolguy_great advice
Thanks a lot! That was really helpful
[quote=lolguy_]great advice[/quote]
Thanks a lot! That was really helpful
Only gonna make some points that lolguy hasn't already made since that post covers most things already. Also am Euro so just thinking about product here really, tho I don't see why some things can't apply as game/koth principles anyway.
1) When you're exchanging into enemy team that has point, Scout+Soldier exchange is really nice for covering a lot of ground, getting the force out with consistency and then getting your Soldier behind the enemy team. If they chase your pocket, occupy as much ground as possible and depending on how good damage exchange is for you, you can chase deep to help your pocket. Worst case you have secured the point and lost your pocket. If they ignore your pocket you take a fight but with the benefit of a Soldier behind who can destroy them from height / with a bomb.
2) I would say running Spy is gonna be worse than almost any other class you could run in its place. Another important point is that specifically to break Product forward hold you should never be sniping out - the best case scenario is the Demo at cliff is spotting for info and your Sniper hits his first shot on him and you can bust out cliff. I see a lot of teams attempt to snipe out of main to break this forward and have never seen it work either :-/
Nothing to add for 3 and I know nothing about 4 :-(
Only gonna make some points that lolguy hasn't already made since that post covers most things already. Also am Euro so just thinking about product here really, tho I don't see why some things can't apply as game/koth principles anyway.
1) When you're exchanging into enemy team that has point, Scout+Soldier exchange is really nice for covering a lot of ground, getting the force out with consistency and then getting your Soldier behind the enemy team. If they chase your pocket, occupy as much ground as possible and depending on how good damage exchange is for you, you can chase deep to help your pocket. Worst case you have secured the point and lost your pocket. If they ignore your pocket you take a fight but with the benefit of a Soldier behind who can destroy them from height / with a bomb.
2) I would say running Spy is gonna be worse than almost any other class you could run in its place. Another important point is that specifically to break Product forward hold you should never be sniping out - the best case scenario is the Demo at cliff is spotting for info and your Sniper hits his first shot on him and you can bust out cliff. I see a lot of teams attempt to snipe out of main to break this forward and have never seen it work either :-/
Nothing to add for 3 and I know nothing about 4 :-(