The same way you get your win.
You can get a payout on /bets/ and you alsoget notification

Reopened bets: https://saloon.tf/home/

Is it after x-amounts of bets that you get to bet more or why do some people have more than 4 items on their bets?

I'm not sure if it's bugged or I just don't understand, but I can find absolutely no means on /bets/ or otherwise to get back the items I bet on two matches that were not played. The matches in question are there but as upcoming events.

I'm sorry as I failed to understand what games did you have in mind.
The ones that are market upcoming will only be refunded if they get scheduled past 27th. Otherwise new date will be set.

Those are either donators, members of staff or people who didn't try to switch their bets while the game was live.
I'll most likely be increasing amount of items a single person can bet in a month or so.

It's now guaranteed that if the difference between your deserved winnings and what you get won't be bigger than $0.1, since we now have enough low value leftovers to guarantee that.
I reserve a right to change it in the future when item situation changes too.

Also please note that recently (for the past month) this difference was always smaller, it's just that we didn't guarantee it before.

EDIT: Returned previous bets and re-added Street Hoops vs Yommies

Added all games for the EU and all of the NA games that are acceptable without a spread.
https://saloon.tf/home/

what happened to froyo vs ascent bets?

EDIT: my bad, just a problem with the mobile version of the site

Still hangin in there.

To make everything clear.
As ETF2L decided to allow betting both on yourself and against your team I want to remind everyone that even if your league allows to do so betting against your team is against Saloon.tf's rules and may get you banned from all our activities and future events (including sponsored ones if that happens).

You may get away betting on your team in leagues that allow that though as we're more loose in that matter.

I'm also going to stop adding all ETF2L games that require spread and refund them, as well as vastly reduce amount of HL games added in the future since there is a valid competitior in that gamemode.

Current status:
ESEA - betting on any outcome disallowed
ozfortress - betting on any outcome disallowed
ETF2L - betting both against and for your team allowed
AsiaFortress - betting against your team (and maybe for it) to be disallowed
UGC - no statement yet, pending query

Why is ducky allowed to be an admin?

ETF2L's stance is more that they don't think it's up to them to regulate the betting, and it should be done by Cherry. I think that's sensible and Cherry's view that betting on your own team but not against is a good idea.

However I don't agree with removing the spread bets. Every point matters in a season and saying that there is "no incentive to play fairly" and expecting people to throw games now that ETF2L is not going to ban you for betting against yourself is dumb. 3 reasons why:

1. A ban from saloontf is enough of a deterrent to stop people betting against themselves openly. It would be stupid, they know you check the games to make sure it doesn't happen, so that changes nothing.

2. If they were going to throw beforehand it would have been with an alt account, throwing the game for massive amounts of ecurrency. The deterrent was, and still is, that in Prem all the points matter. You can't throw a game even if there was spread betting and you only lost 1 point - that single point could be the difference between you getting into playoffs, or getting 1st or 2nd seed etc. The deterrent for throwing has not been removed.

3. A lack of spread betting this season means that only 4 games all season will be allowed as far as I can see. That's really dumb imo for engaging with a european audience for your website, especially when spread betting works so much better than it does in ESEA. Yes they get banned for throwing in ESEA, but let's take the Froyo vs. Cafe Monsters game for example: it wasn't a throw for skins, but if you had made that game spread betting and the result was the same with froyo messing about, it would certainly look that way. They can throw rounds with no penalty and no way of telling whether they really did throw or not. At least in ETF2L there is a penalty if you throw in a spread game.

Sorry but that etf2l stance is like they're washing their hands of this mess so they dont have anything to do with it when it's clear they should just outright ban betting on the games you are involved in. It's really shameful that they even condone such behaviour.

As for removing bets I dont agree as well seeing as just the other day in the hl finals a team with 80% odds lost and there have been numerous examples where underdogs do win, I think unless it's a clear 1st or 2nd seed against the last, the games should just have normal bets.

As for reducing hl bets I dont really understand the decision, if it's due to the etf2l decision I guess it's a fair response otherwise I think etf2l prem HL is probably the best and most unpredictable competition to have bets for. UGC is a joke as far as HL in europe goes and if you're expecting more serious games there then I would think again.

lol hl

I don't think it's ETF2L's place to ban people for betting on or against their own team. It's not their site. The only thing you should be banned from ETF2L for is if you throw games or are betting on teams with the knowledge that games are gonna be thrown. As for people just betting against themselves (which is normally gonna happen in ignorance of the rules by a player on a bad team) just let cherry warn them, nullify the bet and if necessary ban them from saloon.

How is it not etf2l responsibility to prevent and educate players from engaging in bets that could affect the outcome of matches?

I don't even understand how a league (despite how professional it is) would find it acceptable to "bet against your own team" as long as you don't throw the game, like, where the hell do you draw the line? So now you are free to bet against your own team assuming your team is already not favorite? Isn't that completely retarded and doesn't it undermine the basic principle of competition? Sorry but I can't really see a defense for etf2l stance on allowing bets on your own games.

Either way I don't think it matters who regulates it as long as somebody punishes you for betting against yourself.

The more important part is that this doesn't mean that spread betting on ETF2L is bad. At all.

1. All league and competitions in real world as well as some virtual ones policy it as it also affects their reputation and following.
The reason why I thought of it as a good idea was because we all have common goals (bookie and leagues) and banning players just by me would in no way discourage others from throwing since that's not a punishment at all. Just makes it slightly harder whereas a potential ban from a league could greatly discourage those who want to throw.

2. I can easily imagine a team like TLR giving away 1 point and still being in playoffs.

3. This doesn't matter that much given the update I got, but the issue was that while it's clear when someone bets against his team (as well as his intentions are clear) whether it was intentional throw or not was subject to the opinion of the admins. I believe that everything leading to a match fix should be bannable if it can be documented.

Your counter to point 2 makes no sense.

In ESEA you have a situation where a team can throw 3 rounds and still take all the points from a fixture but lose a spread bet. There is no way to tell they threw the game, they might have just been trying out a new unlock or w/e.

In ETF2L they have to lose 2 points to throw the game and lose a spread bet. That's the difference between getting into playoffs and not for a team like TLR. That's the difference between 1st and 3rd seed for a team like Zizi. It's a huge deterrent, and imo as much as the risk of getting banned. It makes no sense to have that as your reason for spread betting being disallowed in Europe.

Still the further we go into the season the clearer it'll look how the table is going to shape up. There's nothing discouraging anyone from betting against himself and then winning GC, giving away just one point and getting potentially a massive payout.
All you know then is that he bet against himself, but without a rule disallowing that how can you be sure that he was throwing? Maybe the odds were great and he thought - oh well the other team is not that weak we may go into GC.

You can't win the GC, you have to lose 2 points to win a spread bet.

This isn't supposed to be fool-proof, if people want to throw for a few refined they will create alts and risk it, my point is that you're fine with ESEA's system and it's less of a deterrent than ETF2L's; it makes no sense to disallow spread bets for ETF2L and be fine with them for ESEA. Just allow them for both.

But ESEA do disallow betting against yourself, this is the main reason.

But if people bet against themselves and throw the game they will be banned from ETF2L as well. The only difference is that if people use an alt to try and circumvent your policy without throwing they only get a ban on saloon. Which is fair enough, if they're not throwing the game and just wanted to bet against themselves, they deserve a ban on saloon but don't deserve to be banned on ETF2L.

I would love to know how it's possible to bet against yourself and not throw? It basically defeats the point of competition, you might not go 5/25 both maps to throw but your thoughts and ingame actions will very much be conditioned by your bet against yourself, how is this even up for discussion?

Wouldn't you bet against yourself to win and lose the items?

Excuse me?

I'm not saying it should be allowed, I'm just saying that it's not as bad as throwing the game deliberately for skins and therefore doesn't necessarily require an ETF2L ban. I think it's possible to bet against yourself if you're playing vs a much better team and still give it your all. I don't think that's contradictory at all.

Also ye herrp you guys are gonna be so close with dogs.tf it's gonna be scary. Big chokers on your team.

Estimated wins are more adequate now and show guaranteed value as long as the odds stay the same.

http://i.imgur.com/WX3PeIZ.png

Btw. if you know Japanese, French and/or Mandarin we're looking for you to join our team :)
It's mostly for fun and the experience, but we're also offering the ability to bet 20 items and a nice addition to your CV.

when you bet on something it's what you hope will happen, if you hope you lose that's called throwing