Calling MattCV

is this even trustworthy

like it sounds like a great idea but im sceptical

i dont trust anyone who starts a 'serious' post with "Mentlegens"

i think its doin fine and i think we already ask for way too much money from the community

tf2 will be as big as it wants to be

also anybody who uses that many smiley faces is 12 or a pathological liar or european none of which are acceptable

Hey riotbz,

great question! I am aware that this might be a concern people have. However, I hope this will only be in the begins of the movement. I am working on one possible solution to this problem by trying to get a big launch event going, where trusted community figures will try to crowdfund their next tournament or player. Like this the community can be sure that their money will be used as it was intended.
Next to that I will have two further precautionary measures (1) The early pledger will have to work closely with me, so to ensure they will use the money as intended and (2) There will be a “reach-the-goal” model (Kickstarter-model) and not a “keep-what-you-raise” model (Indiegogo-model). This will ensure that no one can just keep the money if they are not capable of realizing an event/send a player.

I hope this explains some of the mechanism I will use to enforce trustworthiness of the system.

haha actually that is a good point.. I am no spy!

Hey m,

While Esports in general is doing fine, however TF2 Esports is lacking bigger tournaments/appearances at bigger events. Maybe yes, you are right that the phrase "Saving Esports together" is over the top. But this is also a catching phrase on a landing page.

Also the part about asking too much money from the community, might be right but in the case of a crowdfunding site it is way different imo. You are not just asking money from them, you are delivering value in return specifically tailored towards the members which gave you their money. People will only fund something they actually want to see/get, thus there is a difference in how value is provided.

I don't think you can make the argument that tf2 is "asking for too much money from the community" when bigger esports are consistently applying this model with Compendiums, stickers etc. Just because it's being run through the game and you get some shit in-game doesn't change the system of fans funding teams/players. The main 'purchase' you get for those items/donations is the event itself and the entertainment which is never free to create.

As for the website itself I am always going to be ultra-cautious of sites which are handling large amounts of money. What makes this different to sites you've mentioned such as Indiegogo, imraising, or kickstarter? Just that it's esports-specific?

What i dont understand is you talk about funding tournaments but on the landing page there is only getting talked about funding "your favourite team " or "your favourite player "

Also as sideshow mentioned, what will be the advantages of using this over other fundraising websites?

At least with GoFundMe or ImRaising we know some rando me dude who's never been involved with any tf2 major won't just take the money and run. What advantages does this site offer over those? Who controls the donated money? I don't see how this is a good idea in any way.

Okay great input Sideshow, thanks for this!

So to answer the question how EsportMe will differentiate itself from other, bigger, crowdfunding sites. The answer is: It will be way more specific. EsportMe is here to supply the niche of Esports in the space of Crowdfunding. Basically it is here that Esports-enthusiast find what they are looking for more rapidly and that tournament-provider know that their target audience will be the right one. The problem with the bigger Crowdfunding Websites is that often a project gets lost amongst the 1000's of other projects. Only heavy marketing/buzz activates beforehand will somewhat ensure recognition. Thus, EsportMe should represent the blue ocean, resegmenting the crowdfunding market and deliver a space where smaller Esports organizations can get funded.

Concerning Security/not running away with the money:
Imo here is where the launch event will be important. First the guys who want to get funded will need to register an account to be able to post their own "tournament/player/event". After that they will have to set-up a crowdfunding goal and only after reaching that goal the money will be available to them. Now the important part, in the early days of the website, it will only be open to trustworthy community figures, which somewhat ensures the correct usage of the money. No "random" people will be allowed.

Btw: Ofc the server's backend has the state of the art encryption services to provide the other aspect of security issues. (FYI PayPal transaction only then become available if there is the state of the art encryption service.)

Does this clarify some of your concerns/questions?

The fact that you don't have even have an account on any TF2 League site and you have no history running stuff like this means I'm just not going to give any money through your site dude.

This is a fair point yes! But FYI I am part of the TF2 community since 2007 just not registered... only on steam :3

Also I believe people misunderstand. You will not be giving money to me, you will be giving money to whatever team/org will try to get a bigger tournament going. I will have nothing to do with your money, your money will directly go to the PayPal account of that said team/org. The only thing I can do is "blocking/canceling the transaction" but I will not be able to get the money. This will all be handled by PayPal

And thank you for your feedback (also all the other thanks for your feedback guys). This is actually helping me. I can now clearly state that one of the central problems is a "trust and security"-issue.

In what way and aspect were you part of the TF2 community from 2007 till now? If you said you followed comp and played the game casually I may believe you, but everything on your steam profile indicates you have relatively little investment in this game. You have only around 800 hours in the game, which even if you were a casual player is small if you have been playing since 2007. Not doubting that you have had the game since 07/08 just kinda wondering how someone who has so little invested in the actual game comes to find out about the TF2 comp scene, and why out of the blue tries to make a service for it. Idea sounds great but sites made to scam viewers in E-Sports are a real risk, better safe than sorry.

Would I be able to use your platform for my Florida Lan tournaments?
I'm having a lot of trouble finding sponsors for a TF2 Lan and was heavily considering going to indiegogo for Crowd Funding. I see you really want to make your site into a nice alternative but what differences/benefits would I get using your platform over the others?

As a few people stated it's hard to trust projects like these that could potentially handle large sums of money, just look at the issue the community is having with the scammer Delta...

http://i.imgur.com/iW8OWXQ.png

http://i.imgur.com/bTqrPNb.png

i hope you understand why people are skeptical

Yes guys, I can understand why you are skeptical. So let me explain:

It is true I have always been a more or less casual player. Only "competitive" plays I ever did were back in the days of the GTFO Servers where I climbed pretty high on their ladders (top10 at the time). And yes it is true that I have not played tf2 a lot lately, due to the fact that I am a funder of a MedTech startup centered on nanomechanical assessment of breast cancer (nuomedis) where I am working day and night basically. The little time I have left I am spending thinking of new technologies etc. (I love living in the future) AND watching STREAMS on twitch (I am human too :P)
A lot of the streams are TF2 and or SC2 related!
And here is where the idea comes from. The SC2 scene is under a dying star right now, with Koreans more or less "band" from foreign tournaments and few offline tournaments announced. So I thought to myself that a crowdfunding platform would be well suited for such a community since if everyone is as passionate about the game as I am, we actually could move things, we actually could create tournaments and fill them up with players and caster we enjoy watching.
Now why did I not start with the SC2 scene, the answer is straight forward: I wanted to test my hypothesis about the idea with a smaller and maybe even more enthusiastic community I consider myself part of: TF2!

This is the story of how I cam up with the idea and this is why I have created that post on here.

I hope this does make some sense to you, and cleares some of the skeptical nature you have. But again, I understand the concerns and I need to find a way how to be come more trust worthy I see.

Hey fellow doctor!

Great question, thanks for asking.
So your case is one that I am envisioning way down the road of EsportMe. The thing is, IF you want to host an Offline Event you will need to somehow provide additional value to all the people that have pledged money but will not be able to attend. I think you will need to create smaller perks for every donation level, otherwise people will just give you the money, will not attend, thus will never actually profit from anything. So either these are genuinely awesome and kind people or you will need to make perks available as mentioned.

In the early days of EsportMe I am envisioning almost exclusively Online products to be crowdfunded since the value chain is intrinsically given. People pay for tournament to happen and to consume content -> Tournament will actually happen and generate content for them to watch.

As for handling large amounts of money and being better as the traditional crowdfunding sites:
The teams pledging for money will have to register with full name and address ofc. Also the money will not be sent for transaction before the goal was reached.
Also we have to understand that Kickstarter or Indiegogo cannot guarantee that the money will be spend wisely. The only safety measurement is that the team/guy pledging for money is up for evaluation by the community (since he puts his name/face out there) and if he does not deliver on his promise again his name and face is known throughout the community.

Edit: Removed "my own quote"

This has scam written all over it. Good luck though.

http://b-metro.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/money-under-nose.jpg

scam
clueless

pick one or both

for anyone thinking of routing any money through this service, don't.

At the very least the Starcraft interest has some basis, he has a youtube channel with old Starcraft video's on it https://www.youtube.com/user/DrManhattan11/videos also bodybuilding videos, the guy is jacked as fuck.

Edit:
https://twitter.com/itsDrManhattan Twitter is mostly Starcraft or other Blizzard game stuff. Been around to long to not be fake, shows his job and his interest in the comp scene of at least some games. He seems more clueless than scammy.

Okay, I see I see. People are getting fixated on the trust worthiness. However, please don’t insult the idea as being a scam, if you do so, argue for or against it. Like this at least I will be able to learn from the insults you throw at me!
Please try to still stay respectful. I am still trying to set up something that can/and will help the tournament scene of Tf2 and other smaller Esports communities.

About the trust issues, the system is as follows: Teams, trusted by the community, will create their OWN accounts, provide their own credentials, using their own paypal accounts. I myself will not be able to do anything. There is server security set-up by PayPal and/or Stripe. There is encryption service set-up by Amazon encryption.

I don't really see the benefit of this site. If someone wants to support their favorite team or player, they can just send them the money. Everybody has everybody on steam and anyone who's interested in being given money has a paypal link on their stream/youtube/whatever. If someone wants to fundraise a community tournament, all they need to do is make a thread here and/or on ETF2L and the community decides if it's worthwhile/legit. I don't think the process needs to be streamlined in such a small/tight community as comp tf2.
Also

this begs the question why you're interested in creating a time-consuming service that you say you won't profit from, that's directed towards something you're only marginally involved in.

I'm not saying it's a scam or the idea is bad, I just don't see how it would be all that worth your time for tf2 specifically

I mean kinda interesting idea, but we may be a bad community to start with. We have been burned by shit like this way to many times. Be it teams like Blight or shitty people hosting "charity" drives then running we have had way to many things like this blow up in our face. For better or worse we are a close knit community, and because of that if we get new people coming in and saying a lot of great stuff but have no real backing we are a little skeptical. Your presentation and knowledge of the game/community doesn't help.

Haha in the light of the recent accusations I am actually happy about the statement of being "clueless". And thank you for shading some light on my person! I could not have done it myself otherwise people would have raised the pit forks even higher.

But tbh, I don’t think I am that clueless. I do understand the current trends and movements in different Esport-communities. There have been quite some pushes towards streamlining "crowdfunding" in lately. Most prominently seen in the melee scene, they are in big parts financed by their own community. And hell, they had 100k viewer for their last big Smash event (which was quite impressive). Also another incidence of successful crowdfunding was about 1.5years ago where Axiom.Crank (SC2 pro gamer) got funded to go to Blizzcon. This then even pushed TotalBiscuit to launch Team-Axiom. And the most famous incident of crowdfunding has to be “The International”.

So imo, the willingness and readiness of crowdfunding "Esport"-events is already quite strong within many members of different Esport-communities. The only thing missing is a streamlined and easy way of organizing such a thing. But hey, this is the just vision and interpretation of one crazy guy, as I like to say! So maybe all the people telling me it is a bad idea and I should not put my time and effort into it are right after all... I just don’t know yet. I need to think and test more before giving up!

Good feedback thank you. I like to hear/read other people's perspective. So what you are saying is that you dont see the benefit of a streamlined user environment, where it is made easy for the organizer and the payer to meet. For me this is exactly one of the strong points, since centralizing event creation and event funding seems already like a nice pain reliever. But again, this is just my point of view.

And as to "being worth my time" .. Well what can I say - I like to work! I am a person who does not need a lot of sleep and I like seeing progress during my day. So working is what I do :o (Eat, work, gym, gf, sleep, repeat)

I'm not saying there's no benefit in general. I'm saying it's probably not exactly suited to a community mad of 3 main regions, with maybe some 5 top teams each that would likely get donatead reasonable money for competing, who are all on a friend basis with most of the community already. Imo I don't think there are a lot of players who take comp tf2 seirously enough to give money to a team who don't frequent tf.tv or ETFL forums and would notice a fundraising thread there. This might change completely with matchmaking and make the whole thing much more viable.

http://www.ruffwingfarms.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/ruffwing-sheep.jpg