I think as long as they don't get changed they need to be removed from ESEA play.
I think you could make the booties work if you changed them in a couple of ways.
- remove the 25% damage reduction demoman gets from stickies not fired at an enemy
- whenever demoman takes fall damage with booties equipped he gets afflicted with bleed, if its a max fall damage hit, then he also gets stunned for one second.
- 10% slower heal speed
These changes are aimed to make the extra movement you get require more skill (avoiding fall damage), and to make the demoman less tanky with the booties on. While still keeping the general concept of what they are capable of alive.
I think as long as they don't get changed they need to be removed from ESEA play.
I think you could make the booties work if you changed them in a couple of ways.
[list]
[*] remove the 25% damage reduction demoman gets from stickies not fired at an enemy
[*] whenever demoman takes fall damage with booties equipped he gets afflicted with bleed, if its a max fall damage hit, then he also gets stunned for one second.
[*] 10% slower heal speed
[/list]
These changes are aimed to make the extra movement you get require more skill (avoiding fall damage), and to make the demoman less tanky with the booties on. While still keeping the general concept of what they are capable of alive.
JaguarFiendA very slight nerf could be making the speed bonus apply only when melee is out. This would make the player have to be a bit busier with weapon switches to utilize the speed if they weren't using the booties to be a demoknight. In many ways though it wouldn't change much during non-fighting moments and would be like counterstrike (run faster with knife out).
make the move speed build up since your last sticky jump, maybe even a slight penalty after fall damage? Let's you surf better and play passively which is gay but doesn't dick you over for mid fights or w/e if you're not using them. Removing the move speed 100% is kinda unlikely since valve wants demoknight to be at least somewhat usable, and if it weren't for movespeed affecting sticky jumps the weapons would be fine for rollouts. The problem on mid is how much longer the extra 25-40 HP let's you stay alive
DanceNumberI think as long as they don't get changed they need to be removed from ESEA play.
I think you could make the booties work if you changed them in a couple of ways.
- remove the 25% damage reduction demoman gets from stickies not fired at an enemy
- whenever demoman takes fall damage with booties equipped he gets afflicted with bleed, if its a max fall damage hit, then he also gets stunned for one second.
- 10% slower heal speed
These changes are aimed to make the extra movement you get require more skill (avoiding fall damage), and to make the demoman less tanky with the booties on. While still keeping the general concept of what they are capable of alive.
1. would make sure you can't ever use them because the average sticky jump will do like 100 damage. If anything you'd wanna increase this to encourage more jumpy demos and prevent people from just passively gaying with the health bonus
2. Stuns are kinda gay but self inflicted ones aren't terrible. There's not any rollouts where you have to take fall damage so like it does make running them have risk for midfights and shit
3. please no slowing heal speed just makes medics and pockets suffer and buffs the flank more :(
if u wanna make him less tanky and more flanky limit his overheal to 260 and give him a self damage resistance. It kinda goes against the demoknight core of the weapon but it provides an alt to pipes that's a lot less stupid and encourages playing demoman in a different and more aggressive way. if u wanna make him more passive and spammy (why?) you could take off the 25 health and give him 300 overheal. Tanking your demo on mid is a slightly better option but demos will arrive to mid at roughly the same health +/- 10.
[quote=JaguarFiend]A very slight nerf could be making the speed bonus apply only when melee is out. This would make the player have to be a bit busier with weapon switches to utilize the speed if they weren't using the booties to be a demoknight. In many ways though it wouldn't change much during non-fighting moments and would be like counterstrike (run faster with knife out).[/quote]
make the move speed build up since your last sticky jump, maybe even a slight penalty after fall damage? Let's you surf better and play passively which is gay but doesn't dick you over for mid fights or w/e if you're not using them. Removing the move speed 100% is kinda unlikely since valve wants demoknight to be at least somewhat usable, and if it weren't for movespeed affecting sticky jumps the weapons would be fine for rollouts. The problem on mid is how much longer the extra 25-40 HP let's you stay alive
[quote=DanceNumber]I think as long as they don't get changed they need to be removed from ESEA play.
I think you could make the booties work if you changed them in a couple of ways.
[list]
[*] remove the 25% damage reduction demoman gets from stickies not fired at an enemy
[*] whenever demoman takes fall damage with booties equipped he gets afflicted with bleed, if its a max fall damage hit, then he also gets stunned for one second.
[*] 10% slower heal speed
[/list]
These changes are aimed to make the extra movement you get require more skill (avoiding fall damage), and to make the demoman less tanky with the booties on. While still keeping the general concept of what they are capable of alive.[/quote]
1. would make sure you can't ever use them because the average sticky jump will do like 100 damage. If anything you'd wanna increase this to encourage more jumpy demos and prevent people from just passively gaying with the health bonus
2. Stuns are kinda gay but self inflicted ones aren't terrible. There's not any rollouts where you have to take fall damage so like it does make running them have risk for midfights and shit
3. please no slowing heal speed just makes medics and pockets suffer and buffs the flank more :(
if u wanna make him less tanky and more flanky limit his overheal to 260 and give him a self damage resistance. It kinda goes against the demoknight core of the weapon but it provides an alt to pipes that's a lot less stupid and encourages playing demoman in a different and more aggressive way. if u wanna make him more passive and spammy (why?) you could take off the 25 health and give him 300 overheal. Tanking your demo on mid is a slightly better option but demos will arrive to mid at roughly the same health +/- 10.
As a roamer main, booties annoy me to no end but so do many unlocks currently in use. To be honest, there are some weak reasons in this thread to supporting banning the booties. Tops on the list is "forcing the other demo to use booties". Don't give me that crap, nobody can ever force you to use a particular item. Unless an item is totally broken or leading to excessive stalemates (quickfix) then it falls on the player / team to find a strategy that works if you can't break another team.
I agree that items need to be tweaked from time to time but in this case I don't see Booties breaking the game in any fashion. You can compare booties to Kritz or playing against a sniper/heavy more than anything else. There are accepted play styles to counter each problem a team may face and this is no different. Just because booties forces teams to play differently against a skilled demo does not mean an item is broken.
Every single unlock in this game means that the player more skilled in the use of that unlock will provide some sort of advantage to his team. Booties are no different in this respect so it seems like players crying because they are not good enough to deal with a new strategy or a particular player skilled in the use of an item hence the call for "nerfs".
As a roamer main, booties annoy me to no end but so do many unlocks currently in use. To be honest, there are some weak reasons in this thread to supporting banning the booties. Tops on the list is [b]"forcing the other demo to use booties"[/b]. Don't give me that crap, nobody can ever force you to use a particular item. Unless an item is totally broken or leading to excessive stalemates (quickfix) then it falls on the player / team to find a strategy that works if you can't break another team.
I agree that items need to be tweaked from time to time but in this case I don't see Booties breaking the game in any fashion. You can compare booties to Kritz or playing against a sniper/heavy more than anything else. There are accepted play styles to counter each problem a team may face and this is no different. Just because booties forces teams to play differently against a skilled demo does not mean an item is broken.
Every single unlock in this game means that the player more skilled in the use of that unlock will provide some sort of advantage to his team. Booties are no different in this respect so it seems like players crying because they are not good enough to deal with a new strategy or a particular player skilled in the use of an item hence the call for "nerfs".
JaguarFiendA very slight nerf could be making the speed bonus apply only when melee is out. This would make the player have to be a bit busier with weapon switches to utilize the speed if they weren't using the booties to be a demoknight. In many ways though it wouldn't change much during non-fighting moments and would be like counterstrike (run faster with knife out).
I actually remember b4nny talking during a stream one time about how a possible change would be to have the speed boost apply when you have a shield equipped, since the booties were originally meant for full demoknights without a primary weapon. But slin did make an excellent point
MR_SLINif you believe something is broken, abuse it until a change is made.
The same can (sort of) be said by the old loose cannon. People would use it so much that eventually valve realized "hey, this weapon is seeing as much if not more effective use than other weapons, so we should look into rebalancing it."
The only map (that I can think of) where you're not doing much for yourself and your team if you don't run booties is granary tbh. I really enjoy how the booties add another dimension to the class rather than keeping demo within certain boundaries that, heaven forbid, you even think about stepping outside of.
[quote=JaguarFiend]A very slight nerf could be making the speed bonus apply only when melee is out. This would make the player have to be a bit busier with weapon switches to utilize the speed if they weren't using the booties to be a demoknight. In many ways though it wouldn't change much during non-fighting moments and would be like counterstrike (run faster with knife out).[/quote]
I actually remember b4nny talking during a stream one time about how a possible change would be to have the speed boost apply when you have a shield equipped, since the booties were originally meant for full demoknights without a primary weapon. But slin did make an excellent point [quote=MR_SLIN]if you believe something is broken, abuse it until a change is made.[/quote]
The same can (sort of) be said by the old loose cannon. People would use it so much that eventually valve realized "hey, this weapon is seeing as much if not more effective use than other weapons, so we should look into rebalancing it."
The only map (that I can think of) where you're not doing much for yourself and your team if you don't run booties is granary tbh. I really enjoy how the booties add another dimension to the class rather than keeping demo within certain boundaries that, heaven forbid, you even think about stepping outside of.
Booty Demo is boring.
I want it banned so I can see cool pipe/sticky combos that look impressive.
Booty Demo is boring.
I want it banned so I can see cool pipe/sticky combos that look impressive.
This is a fairly unusual suggestion but what if we just organised a match between the top NA and top EU team? It seems to me like the EU players and NA players have a fundamentally different mindset about the game chiefly because they play differently and rarely face off agaisnt each other so perhaps the 2 sides can only come to a consensus about the booties when they see both points of view in a real game setting.
It would also serve to build hype for the upcoming i58 LAN and I believe we've done this sort of thing in the past to generate hype for another insommnia LAN (I believe it was i52 but I'm not 100% on that). Ping would obviously be an issue but if we played one map on a US server and one map on an EU server it could give us an idea of how the booties could play out in a real inter-continental setting even if it's not perfect ping-wise.
This is a fairly unusual suggestion but what if we just organised a match between the top NA and top EU team? It seems to me like the EU players and NA players have a fundamentally different mindset about the game chiefly because they play differently and rarely face off agaisnt each other so perhaps the 2 sides can only come to a consensus about the booties when they see both points of view in a real game setting.
It would also serve to build hype for the upcoming i58 LAN and I believe we've done this sort of thing in the past to generate hype for another insommnia LAN (I believe it was i52 but I'm not 100% on that). Ping would obviously be an issue but if we played one map on a US server and one map on an EU server it could give us an idea of how the booties could play out in a real inter-continental setting even if it's not perfect ping-wise.
you do realize that happens 2-3 times every year before an i series and then happens again at i series right?
you do realize that happens 2-3 times every year before an i series and then happens again at i series right?