:O)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkJqKOb0ZhY

You're misreading me. My point was that the heroes, and with them the spectrum of possible tactics that you have to prepare for , are locked down from the start of the game. This gives you a chance to read what the opponent might try to do later based on their current behaviour and items.

Playing tf last night was equivalent to a game of dota where the hero could be swapped at any time. Simply too many possibilities at once for any meaningful foresight to be had.

I've been trying to formulate my thoughts on some of the posts in this thread for a couple of hours now without really finding a red string to them - sorry if this gets rantey.

I don't know how apparent it was just how much the BFB+quickfix (and to a certain extent - every other movement speed-manipulating unlock) destroyed any kind of established meta, class roles etc. and just how much this confused both teams. Timings, duels and many, many more things that make the game, or at least the scene, what it is was thrown out of the window in favour of throwing everyone straight into the fray and see how it pans out. The scouts were so dominant tonight that at least kaptain attempted to go DH just to counter them while AMS kept to the normal RL + close range splashes; in both cases it was ineffective to say the least. Maybe we'll find new strategies and maybe we'll find a new amazing meta a couple of months down the road and maybe valve will give us the cs:go attention and maybe suddenly we'll all be huge and famous.

But I think all the talks the past few months — heck, this has been hotly debated for seven years now — about how we need to change the game, go over to new gamemodes / allow everything in 6v6 all boils down in my head to one question: For what? Why should we "suffer through a few months of super strong BFB scouts" even if it somehow made the game 'stronger'? This might be a very european view on things but the reality of comp tf2 is that we don't, and most likely won't, make enough money off of this to live on it. That leaves us with fun as motivation for both playing and watching the game and I don't know if tonight was especially fun for anyone involved.

I must admit that this might be me being salty about the fact that tonight the most important part of scout meta was to remember not to accidentally double jump. I've spent 5 years double jumping and I'm pretty much ready to say that it's my single most favorite thing about the class. I probably played Team Fortress 2 competetive for the first time tonight and it simply wasn't that fun. And part of that lies in the, honestly, broken unlocks. But part of that also lies in the fact that it simply wasn't comp Tf2.

We kinda discussed how these things should go forward from now on, twiggy's idea seemed to be to limit the most broken unlocks discovered until next time. Personally it just feels like it would end up with the current whitelist + a bunch of troll items that see very limited use, and then really: what's the point. I don't really see how this would help the game out both when it comes to its image as a 'serious' esport and the problem with "staleness of meta" that seems to be the main reason we do this.

Maybe there's room to change comp Tf2 closer to Team Fortress 2. Maybe there isn't. I don't see an open whitelist as an answer, especially if it comes off vague old promises from valve.

I guess in the end I appreciate the initiative like I appreciate all the great initiatives that I've seen take this game from 300 people huddling on 2 stvs to 10 000 people watching a lan final but it feels like we got this far without making these radical changes that people suddenly want to implement. I guess I just don't see the point of it all, for me there's no guarantee (and I really don't see how there could ever be one) that this will make the game either grow to the point where we play it as a living (while semi-ironically remembering the good old days depending on if we hate what it turned into) or make the game a funnier experience for everyone involved.

tldr; i wrote stupid things when I really needed to be sleeping and now I'll have to sleep on my train home tomorrow today instead

Afterthought (cause I showered while debating posting this) and clarification: My point is basically this. Tf2 is fun because of tactics; tactics come out of foresight and adaptation; unlocks only leaves adaptation since we can't know what another player is running before we encounter them. This is the main difference from dota & CS where you have pick / bans at the start or an economy that is part of the meta.

Maybe this is a bit Randian of me but I really like the way that 6v6 plays out and I'd like to keep it that way simply due to the fact that it's something that I've enjoyed for a long time. Don't get me wrong, at the same time I also like the way pubs play out but I don't think those two will ever be close to each other without serious concessions on either side. And by that point I don't think that I'd see the point of playing anymore in the same way that the pubbers that love their current game, because truth be told: it is a different game, wouldn't see any point of playing anymore if their favorite unlocks suddenly got revamped to fit us.

Can we stage a cage fight?

Drago & The Argonauts: That moment when you realize that ryb isn't here only from the newspost about a showmatch
Drago & The Argonauts: :D
bk. AMS: wat
bk. AMS: is he not

This team :D

Oh god, it's all lining up now...

YOU'RE BOOMEH!

I accidentally crafted all my engineer items after being camped by a wrangled mini in public.

Sorry team will find new ways to be op.

A couple of years ago a russian medic was banned for prediction bot on his needles.

People are fucking weird, man.

Obligatory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX8ZeZJqOE0

Gonna practice pomson, minis and wrangler all week

shits gonna get fuuuucked

Started out on småland online before it more or less split into lokalen (#6 represent) & eXhale.

Also a shitton of United SpawnKillers orange-servers (so many nude-sprays)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeaehxEdpgo

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/this-is-beautiful.gif

Luck!

Give it this weekend :O)