I think some people are responding based on the title without reading the first post. Not everyone, and I appreciate those that did reply.

I'm asking because I'm trying get info on why comp players find the Degreaser balanced enough to not get banned. My own opinion on it shouldn't factor in, and I said that to get people to establish that I'm not one of those people who finds the Degreaser ridiculous so the discussion would focus on why it isn't banned.

It's not that your credentials affect whether or not you have your opinion considered by me. Sorry if it came off that way, but my main reason for asking is, simply, to provide a reference of skill level when I quote you in the future.

Note: This thread is all about gathering information. I, myself, find no reason to ban the Degreaser in competitive play. However, I'm not actually a competitive player, so I would like to hear the reasons from you guys.

It would also be awesome if you could provide your division/rank in your league when you reply.

Oh crap, I missed the endif part.

I was thinking everywhere other than endif.

This won't be as long as a reply so I'll reply here.

I suggest looking at the weapon so that you'll realize that there's much more to the weapon than that.

Also, the infinite reserve ammo isn't that good of an upside.

"For-fun" only items shouldn't exist. That is what the Mantreads is and that is why I said "What is the purpose?".

DA is relied on far more in HL than Stickies are.

It essentially removes the Sapper from the Spies loadout until the Pyro is dead.

...Right.

Let's ignore that most classes have to utilize ramp-up and that a Demo is better suicide rushing you with the Caber instead of just dying.

So just continue shooting them on the ground?

They'll be at a huge disadvantage when they run out of loaded rockets.

#29: I wanted to give a long post justifying my opinions but I didn't want to derail the thread.

Let's just say that there are many times in the post where you rewrite my reasons and that not being a threat to balance does not mean a weapon isn't unbalanced.

My opinion matters sooo much, but here's how I voted so far:

Scout: Shortstop (it's just... off), Pretty Boys Pocket Pistol (free 15 HP? Free 15 HP), Sandman (the hell was Valve thinking?)

Soldier: Cow Mangler 5000 (it's a mess), Mantreads (What's the purpose?), Disciplinary Action (when entire games revolve around the use of one weapon and its not a Medic one, you know there is an issue)

Pyro: Flamethrower (needs a buff to compete with Degreaser), Manmelter (needs a buff to compete with anything) and Homewrecker (sapper removal is dumb)

Demoman: Chargin' Targe (kindasorta downgrade to SS and definitely to stickies, needs bash'n'crit fixed), Splendid Screen (downgrade to stickies, needs bash'n'crit fixed), and Ullapool Caber (the hell was Valve thinking?)

#41: Yay for 50 student classes and further school budget cuts.

#16: I don't think that it's possible for either of those to be considered balanced, no matter who you are. Ones the definition of a crutch, and the other is a mess.

And yeah, it's basically a popularity contest for which weapons people want to see changed first and not which are actually a significant balance issue. Most of the votes do come from SPUF.

I personally voted for the Disciplinary Action.

I'll admit, I do seem a bit idealistic when I talk about my actual opinion, but if you tell me what more you want to know, I'll try my best to explain from now on.

Yeah, totally. I totally want to argue about how you're wrong, and not eventually improve the game through a popular community-run mod.

And it's not a promod. I've been over this and the goal is not to make a modification only for skilled players but rather one that attempts to solve the issues of the game regardless of skill and attracts people who simply feel that the gameplay is suffering from Robin's hat addiction.

I already understand that Comp =/= Pubs, grillz, but that doesn't render it impossible to make the game balanced for pubs and comp without some form of a ban list.

And once again, the kind of support I'm asking for is basically just feedback and spreading the word... comp players don't find balance so significant of an issue that they would even do something so simple? I know that it's far from a guarentee, but at least by giving some support, the chance of Valve actually doing something increases.

It's not so much balancing towards pubs rather than not omitting the opinions of tens of thousands of players simply because they aren't playing an organized format.

Pubs are needed for this game to be populated, and omitting pubs completely from balancing will just make pubs even more unbalanced than they are now and the game will die sooner as a result.

There's also the weapons that (everyone) HL thinks of as crappy that need changes to, you know. A lot of people would be happy to see half of the weapons in the game be useful, when they are in fact crappy.

While true, requiring a ban list does show that there is something wrong with the game, especially when ~2/3rds the weapons are on it.

Everyone should have a say in how weapons are. Not just listen to one group and the game is suddenly fixed.

The goal of the mod is not to be a promod used for every organized match ever.

What I mean by support is simple things like playtesting, feedback, or blog posts. Things to help spread the word and have people learn that there are more options than just settling for the untested crap that Valve shoves in the game, barely changes once every six months or so, and never touches again.

I believe Valve listens when the community stops speaking in multiple tiny voices and works together to rupture their eardrums.

As such, I feel that, unless we start working together, Valve won't change their ways until the game is on its death bed.

Supporting this mod will cause it to start gaining Valve's attention, and may end up changing a lot of things about the game, just like Highlander did.

Why wouldn't you, frkn?

The original question being "Would you support this?" has only been answered by, like, two people. The rest have been going off on tangents or entirely misinterpreting the purpose.

So no.

I'm still looking for actual responses to the question and not confusions about promods and junk.