@aporia:

I'm not saying one night of scores justifies ruling a map type out, but I'm simply using it as a catalyst for discussion.

@turin:

OK sorry I misworded my argument. I meant variety in game type not maps. But the point still stands -- do we need a variety in game types? As a community we've already ruled out things like CTF, Payload, and cp_standin domination style.

No problem. Just bump it when you're ready.

To the point made earlier about throwing away a KOTH map and making it two A/D maps, that doesn't make
much sense. Viaduct has proven itself to be a balanced, fun, and continually interesting map. I can see us having more KOTH maps in the future. KOTH_Ashville wasn't a home run but something can come eventually.

Also another interesting discussion point is that we could either go with 8 maps of 5cp, OR we could create an interestingly balanced map pool mix. Something to the effect of 2 5cp maps, 2 KOTH maps, 2 A/D maps, and 2 cp_standin style maps. This is a better reflection of TF2 and the wide variety of map types that the community offers.

Do you see the problem here? There's too many map types. It's too confusing from a player's point of view. There's no possible way to properly prepare for every map type given the limited amount of practice time available to teams.

My opinion? Get rid of A/D and KOTH maps all together. They can be phased out over the course of a few seasons if necessary. Other professional athletic and esports DO NOT have the issues we have because the competitive game only has one style of "court" or game-type. For example, League of Legends has other maps but they aren't played in leagues for money as the "Main Game."

Look I think the original thread that I created last night has devolved into a silly debate over whether or not cp_gravelpit is good or not. This was not my intention.

I never said Gravelpit is bad. It's a great map from a strategic standpoint, it's exciting for spectators, and it's a challenging test of teamwork and coordination -- all on a race against the clock. It's incredible from that point of view.

The point I was making is that if 80+ teams play a night of TF2 and it's all 2-0 something is wrong. It's not necessarily map dynamics.

As a community I want us to evaluate the viability of throwing an A/D map into the rotation at week 4. My hypothesis is that it favors the experienced players too much. For newer teams or teams hashing out chemistry issues, it's an utter disaster. We saw that in Tri Hards vs. Mixup. Even if you know the map, it's just a completely different playstyle.

We have to figure out if comp TF2 is about 5cp maps or if we need variety. If you remove Gpit from the rotation in favor of a 5cp map, then the only non map is koth_viaduct. Also, the other point that people have made is that in terms of practicing TF2, given the limited amount of scrim time that teams have in the preseason, it's significantly more economical to practice a 5cp map over an A/D or KOTH map. We saw a similar problem arise when we tried to introduce cp_standin to the rotation seasons ago.

So what do we think? Is gravelpit in the correct place in week 4 or is it too much of a disruption? Is it valuable for us to keep playing A/D or should we keep it to just 5cp and 2 KOTH maps? Do we need the variety or do we just keep it to 5cp?

Like I said, I got it working last night just fine so it's kind of on you to mess with it a bit. I exec a config as well, but I usually exec before I enter a server. Then I do a combination of toggling and doing hud_reloadscheme to get it to work.

When I say toggling I'm not swapping between 0 and 1. I'm typing 1 over and over which turns it on and off. Make sure you're messing with both commands.

I enjoy casting from the STV server, and I don't see a problem with using it.

Still, minor problems include:
1. Spoilers, due to delay on STV but not on ESEA website or steam game info.
2. HUD broken after pauses.

Blue's advspec more than outweighs these issues. Casters also cannot react to stream chat in real time.

I think you'll have a hard time convincing ESEA to let you sit in server, as they are consistent with their policy across games. Not sure about EU though.

I just used this last night and it works fine.
Make sure to do the following:

1. Download the latest version and make sure it's installed correctly -- blue does a great job of keeping the link in this thread updated.
2. Put -insecure in your launch options.
3. Set glow_outline_effect_enable 1.
4. Set advspec_outline_toggle 1.

One thing I've noticed with steps 3 and 4 is that if you've already enabled it, TF2 bugs out sometimes. A similar effect can happen if you turn on steps 3 and 4 before all players are in the server. What I do to fix this is to reenter the commands from steps 3 and 4 again. This will turn the outlines off. Then type it again again, and it will reactivate the outlines.

I'd agree with Tri that gravelpit is the weakest map in the rotation at the moment, but I'm not sure that there is an adequate replacement -- that is, after all, the issue that we had this season.

It's also important to note that both ETF2L and OWL have removed gravelpit from their map rotations for similar reasons.

Even though the map is great as a spectator map, something needs to be done. Even if the matches are fun to watch, I don't want to come home on a Thursday night and see a bunch of 2-0 games. With 5cp and even KOTH there's more rounds played and I think a little more forgiveness for the losing team. That's why we see so many upsets on Gpit -- if you make a big mistake and give up a round, it's a huge deal. In 5cp or KOTH there's plenty more rounds to be played which potentially results in a more interesting score and it's arguable that the better team in a given matchup wins more often on 5cp.

The best thing that Gpit has going for it is that it is without a doubt the best tiebreaker map for playoff scenarios. It creates a lot of excitement in those high-profile matches and always results in a winner. I think we'd have a hard time findig or making a suitable replacement (Viaduct won't cut it).

Hey Kirby,

We're looking for people who consistently stream throughout the course of a single week as per the guidlelines listed here: http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/6317-teamfortress-tv-listings-and-twitch-tv-team

I understand that you plan on streaming, but at this point in time I cannot list your stream as you have not been streaming on this Twitch account for enough time. Bump the thread when you feel that you meet the requirements.

Thanks,

MR SLIN

Literally every single match tonight across 3 divisions was a 2-0.

Discussion: Do we need to rethink gpit? Do we need to move it to a different week in the rotation, or put another map into the rotation? I personally liked watching it later in the season when the matches were closer.

To be clear -- I'm not sure if this is a matchmaking/booking issue (week 4 matches) or a map selection issue.

Alright you're good to go!

Make sure to do the following:

1. Go to Twitch.TV
2. Click your NAME at the top
3. Navigate to SETTINGS
4. Click the TEAMS tab and accept your invitation

http://puu.sh/2ypcz

Happy Streaming!

Alright you're good to go!

Make sure to do the following:

1. Go to Twitch.TV
2. Click your NAME at the top
3. Navigate to SETTINGS
4. Click the TEAMS tab and accept your invitation

http://puu.sh/2ypcz

Happy Streaming!

Alright you're good to go!

Make sure to do the following:

1. Go to Twitch.TV
2. Click your NAME at the top
3. Navigate to SETTINGS
4. Click the TEAMS tab and accept your invitation

http://puu.sh/2ypcz

Happy Streaming!

Alright you're good to go!

Make sure to do the following:

1. Go to Twitch.TV
2. Click your NAME at the top
3. Navigate to SETTINGS
4. Click the TEAMS tab and accept your invitation

http://puu.sh/2ypcz

Happy Streaming!

Hey Stig,

We're looking for people who consistently stream throughout the course of a single week as per the guidlelines listed here: http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/6317-teamfortress-tv-listings-and-twitch-tv-team

I understand that you plan on streaming, but at this point in time I cannot list your stream as you have not been streaming on this Twitch account for enough time. Bump the thread when you feel that you meet the requirements.

Thanks,

MR SLIN