Sadly there isnt one... I think literally every single hero but 1 or 2 were picked during the groups. Nothing isnt viable, so its more how the teams play individually rather then any meta that is required.

We just end up splitting our already stretched resources again and wasting every ones time.

So nothing bad or terrible, just the average TF2 project.

Yes, most of that is right, but the issue is that it is all reasons as to why shit didn't work out, or justification as to why it was bad. Who's to say that ESL would be any better then faceit or RA? We have already had issues in the past specifically with ESL because they didn't listen tot he community and had a shitty product, and this was back when a lot more people were willing to actually do things and participate.

Pugchamp, is, well pugchamp. That horse is flattened at this point, but even though all people do is bitch no one is interested in looking for, or creating alternatives. No one is actually willing to put the effort it and would rather just talk about it.

As for newbie mixes, that is a issue we have been having for a long as I have been involved with them, almost 5 years total, 3 of those with me being head admin. Seasons don't actually make a massive difference, people not wanting to do anything other then say its a good thing / it should be supported was the primary issue.

Center vs. Stadium is honestly whatever, but it still illustrates my point. That being that we, as a community, are really, really bad at supporting things or making changes to things unless one or two people step up and put the entire project onto their back. And then the few times that is does happen those people usually get shit on, non stop, because what they are doing is not good enough, or is not exactly what people wanted out of it. Its why so many of the content and behind the scenes people have bailed in the past couple of years...

Regardless, my point is that while getting shit into ESL might be nice, we currently have other options right in front of us that we already neglect and saying that "ESL will be different" is a joke, because its been 10 years already, it wont be different.

Edit: Just want to say that I really hate pissing in peoples cheerios like this, but we as a community really need a reality check when it comes to who is actually doing what and what is actually viable.

Hopefully Lawbreakers isnt totally DOA because it is a lot of fun.

Sorry but what support? Like real talk, our community does more then almost any other gaming community when it comes to self support, but when it actually comes to action on bigger things we are absolutely terrible for it. Ill give some examples;

Razor arena. Literally free $$ and yet it died off because no one actually cared

TF2Center: People non stop bitching about how bad it is, an alternative is made, no one actually changes because "reasons"

Newbie mixes: Its not as bad anymore but for the longest time we had issues actually getting people to help out beyond them saying "its great for the game and really should be a thing"

FaceIt: More literal free $$ to pug, yet again no one actually play it.

Pugchamp: People literally never stop bitching about all the issues it has, and how bad it is, etc. etc. and yet Faceit is still totally dead?

Like, sorry, but as a community, (outside of a handful of people) all we really do when it comes to big things is say "yeah this is a great thing and we need it" only to totally ignore it when the time actually comes to actually do something about it. Hell even really shitty things like Tf2Center never got moved on, and with all of the players that bitch you would think that PugChamp should be burned at the stake, yet no one actually changes on any of it.

Sorry to piss in everyone's cheerios but this will not work. We can barely keep Faceit alive due to lack of players and interest. Why would ESL be any different?

We should probably focus on fixing and using the current systems we have before looking for more.

To all the non gotfrag players, here is just a small taste of of what it once was.

https://pastebin.com/Bx616Jg0

Shit talk, and shit posts used to be an actual art.

I wish there was a gotfrag archive up somewhere. So much gold from back in the day.

Like holy shit the drama we have today just blows ass compared to back then.

Literally anything blackfoger has done with TF2 is top tier drama tbh. Still owes smaka like 6 years later lmfao.

Also not sure if anyone but a few will remember at this point but tenaciousg was also some great shit.

"Der Kaiser of German Team Fortress 2, Marco, sensationally quit the game for Brink"

NotLikeThis

But man that brings back some memories.

Don't trust him. He totally bites

lmao the casters make this

Either G-pit or Yukon

http://sizzlingstats.com/stats/327

Man that's a OG log right there...

Why is this not locked yet?