And there you have it, the comp community in a nutshell. If this is the mindset everyone here is riding then it's no surprise that the community is as small as it is. You're basically saying that you're fine that the comp scene is a secret club. If you're saying that its okay for valve to not support the scene because they never intended for one to form then you've already given up. You don't love this game, stop pretending that you do. Your elitism is blinding your rational thoughts. If smash bros can do it then why can't you?

It obviously isn't intentional, but the way the system is set up right now, newbies aren't really going to gravitate toward the community since joining it takes away a lot of the game that they love.

I should have clarified but I didn't say that in all seriousness. I do think that generally people put to much emphasis on dming though.

Generally they are hated though, am I wrong?

It certainly isn't growing, I'll say that. The scene needs way more valve support if it wants to actually grow.

If you can give me a legitimate reason for spycicle to be banned then I'll acknowledge what you're saying. There is no way that weapon should be allowed when comms exist.

Reading comprehension. I said it was a major reason. No one is going to take a game where the players give 0 fucks about most of the weapon list seriously. It means you're acknowledging that you're playing a flawed game and have no intention of doing anything about it. I also never said that the phlog was balanced, it definitely falls into the category of guns with a fundamentally broken design.

This is the main reason tf2 won't get bigger. It's going to remain this underground game that you have no real drive to put time into. It's just something you do in your spare time for fun that you happen to be good at because you once liked it, so you're able to compete casually with your friends. If the game changes you'll have to try and you are all afraid of the change.

What about what I said is wrong?

I apologize for hyperbolizing but your nitpicking doesn't change any of my points. The game isn't that big at all and you'd have to be delusional to think otherwise.

Hello TFTV. You're probably going to tl;dr this since no one really knows who I even am, but if you still have any bit of hope left for competitive team fortress 2, I'd urge you to at least skim this huge post. I wrote this way into the night so it might be a bit of a jumbled mess with lots of swearing so I apologize if I trigger anyone.

I wanted to share a few words with you guys since I guess this is the main hub for tf2 right now. I am going to rant right now as someone who was once in love with this game, but found himself without passion for it after a while. I'm not speaking as a pro. I was an awful pub player who at most joined a shitty tf2lobby here and there. Saying that may burn away any credibility from my post may have had, but I really don't care right now since I'm speaking as someone who was once a fan of the scene and it's esteemed players. In the first place, if you ignore my opinion just because I'm just a viewer or a fan, then I guess you're all comfortable with playing an embarrassingly dead esport with max 300 twitch viewers for big lans.

I'd just like to say that I think team fortress 2 has an insane amount of untapped potential as a spectator sport that pros and tournament admins alike refuse to acknowledge. Part of the reason for this is that you're all slowly indoctrinated by better players as you move up in the scene where certain aspects of the game are concerned. I'm referring to, of course, the weapon bans in tournaments such as ESEA, as well as in general the amount of restrictions placed on the way people play comp tf2. This probably seems irrelevant to you as someone people who have played this game for however many years, but I mean come on, look at this shit. http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=content&d=league_rules_tf2

You've unanimously agreed to ban almost the entire item pool list because you're all too incompetent to find ways to deal with these weapons in play. Some of this shit isn't even good compared to stock weapons, and I really can't find a valid reason for them to be banned at all. The scene has been stagnant for years now, and that is probably due to the fact that the competitive tf2 community has decided that they are incapable of adapting to these weapons in their scrims/officials.

How is that not the sad? Do you even like this game, or do you all just obligated to play it at this point since you've already wasted this much of your lives on it? If you're unwilling to put even the tiniestt amount of effort in researching and testing mechanics in the game that YOU are supposed to be good at, then your scene is basically a fucking joke. There is no room for argument here.

From a spectator's perspective it's disgusting, and probably one of the major reasons the scene has been this dead despite tf2 being a relatively big game on steam. When people hear about the pro scene the first thing they think is that it's handled ridiculously. I mean, the fun in watching a sport like basketball or football (not that handegg shit americucks play because that isn't a sport) is that you can go to the court or the field, play a pickup game with friends and then go watch the professionals play later. There is this level of connection between fans of the game when you're able to do this kind of thing. But right now, comp TF2 has long since killed this kind of interactivity by alienating the casual audience with things like their their weapon bans list because "they're too op they're stupid waaa t_t". So really, how can you blame people who refuse to care about this games pro scene when you decide to basically boycott the entire weapons list because it's hard for you to deal with?

"But we have to ban them, the weapons are unbalanced!" "They're antifun!" Have you bozos actually tried thinking of ways to counter play the weapons strengths? Have you tried to implement the niche weapons into interesting strategies? I mean seriously, how exciting would competitive tf2 be if pros would create innovative and silly pocket strats with unpopular loadouts and class combos? Imagine how much more fun it would be to watch with a 6v6 final flashy and fun weapons like the sandman? The scene would definitely grow if players and organizers loosened up way more on the item bans. Even from your point of view, you're basically forcing yourselves day in and day out to play the same game like a bunch of poorfag children who only own snakes and ladders.

I mean, I won't deny the fact that some weapons are broken as all hell. Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely blind to how fucked this game is right now. But you're forgetting that you're a community of people playing this game, TF2, at the highest level in the world right now. Let that sink in. You're the best at this game. Why shouldn't your words mean anything? Why do you all think that you can't change anything? If you really care about this game, then shouldn't you get together and start trying to communicate with valve right now? As impossible as that sounds to get a hold of them, if you actually feel anything for this game then shouldn't it be possible? I mean, who the fuck cares if they're balancing for pubs? They'd been doing that since day 1 and they somehow made a game with an deceptively high skill ceiling (pyro xd) relatively respectable skill ceiling. There's no way it isn't worth trying to negotiate with them. You've put in more honest hours of work and more effort into this game than any of the other fuckheads who idle in trade servers and call themselves tf2 players. If anything, they should be listening to you guys over anyone else who plays this shitty game.

For those thinking it's just a pipe dream, have you even seen what dota 2 is like right now? Valve plucks ui ideas from le reddit like no tomorrow and has been steadily improving the game to be something great. Even Icefrog, the main developer in charge of balance, discusses the state of the game with professional players before he creates any of his balance changes. I don't think such a situation is impossible for tf2 right now, since valve is probably aware that they should be catering to not only a casual audience, but also a competitive audience as well. If you guys can at least TRY to get in touch with Valve, then who knows? Maybe TF2 will become the game of your dreams. But if you just sit here and bitch about everything, while banning all the weapons and pretending everything is fine, then your game is done. I am sorry.

This is just my interpretation of the situation right now. The game is stagnating.

I get that right now, you all just want to improve your dm and be the best, but from a spectators point of view, it just isn't that interesting. Strategy and adaptability are also traits you should be honing as people who play this game professionally. To switch your brain off at a lan and just play it the same as always is embarrassing if you want the scene taken seriously. The same game every time gets boring for spectators. DM is important but this is a team game with a large amount of depth so good strategy is definitely capable of beating a group of individually skilled players. And it's much more fun to watch too.

And you're all probably slowly getting tired of playing this unchanging game day in and day out anyway. If you don't care enough to try taking steps towards taking back this game, then you may as well stay here and jerk each other off. Go ahead and kill comp tf2 if you're all too scared of change. Because the way things are now the game is fucked and you all know it deep down inside.

(Also, if take nothing else from my ramblings, then at least listen to me when I say that this game isn't about goddamn dming, so stop jerking off over who you beat in mge for fucks sake FUCK YOU.)