Hopefully should have Bagel RC1 out today or tomorrow and have it at its best for the cup, planned to yesterday but had no time.

Super excited to see all these maps played!

There's almost certainly a way to make a lot of the nonstandard gamemodes work great for 6s, but without prodding and probing at them to establish some kind of competitive theory, it's impossible to get anywhere.

Even getting new 5cp maps tested has been hard enough if you don't already have some kind of impetus behind you (a history of making good maps, or endorsement from a well-known player), so there's been very little push to try making competitive maps for other modes.

MapChamp definitely helps out in both those regards, and I'd really like to see that continue so we can see more maps reaching competitive standards, and get a better idea of both the mapping theory and gameplay theory of nonstandard modes.

you deserve

It's important to remember that Valve doesn't invite these people, they organise visits themselves if they have the connections to do so.

Hey I just read this and made a map with a consistent flat green backdrop but also with badlands' lighting so it doesn't do that ugly fullbright thing.

Download here

I can do more of these with different maps lighting settings if you want.

The lobby never started so all I got is detail feedback.

I'd very much recommend eliminating the arabian street feel if you're committing to the mayan theme. All the supposed ruins still feel like lived-in streets and there's lots of arabian props and textures still there.
At the moment it kinda feels like an awkward mishmash of the two.

Hey guys, long time no update.

I'm working on rc1 at the moment, hoping to get that out sometime soon. In the mean time, check out the current version in MapChamp on Sunday, I'd love to see how the updates from etf2l/ozfortress play out.

(and if you like it, do spread the word)

rc sneak preview:

I talked to the creator after playing a lobby on it with him (it was kind of a clusterfuck), he was entirely unaware competitive or 6s existed until i explained why we weren't playing it 16v16 like he'd intended.

Potentially you could artificially lower the elo of lower-playtime players? That way they can still play but the system will treat them differently when balancing teams and if they're good (ie if theyre an alt/new acc for an experienced player) they'll just make the elo back.

(Also do u guys intend to support koth in the future?)

Sorry, TF2Maps was having issues today, it should work again now.

Forward holds have, in theory, been improved since sigafoo cup.

Part of the reason I made bagel was cause I'd love to see more koth maps in the rotation alongside viaduct, especially since a lot of teams just don't bother learning to play koth since theres only one in the pool.

ftr alloy was designed around a quirk that makes it real iffy for comp + I balanced it around pubs so lmao

B4 - Feedback from cups/pugs
Download: koth_bagel_b4

First, thank you so much to ozFortess, ETF2L and various pug groups for playing this map, I got so much feedback and got to watch lots of matches and it has given me tons to work with!

I've made a few changes based on what you've said and what I've seen and hopefully they improve the way the map plays.

Lobby exists the way it does to allow fighting to move forward, but it was tight and not so fun to play in, so I've raised the ceilings and widened the window to make it less claustrophobic and help promote options for forward holds.

A lot of people found the lower point area kind of unsafe to be on and transitioning from there to the safer high ground in house was pretty long-winded, so I've made some changes to some of the quicker routes up to make them easier.

I've also made various visual tweaks and quality-of-life improvements in various spots such as adding some high ground to a couple flat areas, simplifying the trash in lobby, and making the rafters over point more obviously solid.

Less claustrophobic lobby, simplified trash
Improved routes to house, solid rafters

Changelog:
Lobby
- Raised ceiling, simplified walkways
- Simplified and moved trash
- Widened window
- Various detailing tweaks

Mid
- Added extra box to pile on far left side of hill
- Moved barrels to better facilitate climbing into house
- Widened and simplified the small shed
- Added metal sheets and wood shelf to rafters to visualise solidity
- Added small boxes to house to stand on
- Various detailing tweaks

Screenshots:

Thanks for the feedback!

I'll get looking into what I can do with lobby and put out another update when I get the feedback from etf2l. :D

Thanks :)

That spot used to be a big chunky wall before there was detailing, would probably be a pretty dumb spot if you could actually get up there.
I'll try and make it more obviously off-limits in future.