hey man, if you got 1 win and 1 draw, I don't think it was totally unfair to bump you up. at the end of the day, someone has to make some kind of call about what div you play in.

i appreciate that you didn't enjoy that season, but I think that kind of has to do with the players you played with. teams with a big spread in player skill make placements tricky - and this punishes the non-sandbagging players on the roster. do you think you would've won mid?

that's great to hear. I'm looking forwards to playing on pug.tf.

having active people working on projects makes all the difference!!

hey,

pug.tf looks great so far, and i really appreciate you taking the effort here; by just being actively developing the site you're already doing a great job, especially compared to the alternatives

but there are heavy vibe-coding vibes, with lots of strange decisions, small errors, weird features, etc.
for example:
- game being stuck in draft
- weird elo calculator
- weird logs analysis to determine elo and leaderboard (are these holdovers from another project?)
- why can non-logged in people chat?
- why are there gifs in chat?
- why are there so many different layouts available?
- why do i need to link my discord?
- multi-region players are double counted as online
- player names should really come from etf2l/rgl

can't really speak to how good the site works post-draft, which is really the most important part of a pug site

i'm a huge llm user myself, so this isn't a criticism of that. but it's concerning that there doesn't seem to be much "taste". as in, no overarching vision, and not enough discrimination between what's important and what's not. we want to have minimal implementations of things that work, not the maximum amount of (shoddily) implemented features. (tf2pickup does this really well imo.) i'd love to be proven wrong.

keep in mind this is kind of what killed protfx. copper decided to re-vibe code the website or something, which broke the website completely.

i'm happy to give pug.tf a try. but i'm not sure if a better website is the solution to the pug issue.

i actually think the football analogy is pretty good

we actually do have a few shoddy pitches which barely work (pickup, protfx), but no one plays on them.

and we have some closed off pitches (pug discords), which are being played, but not really the same thing

why would the local council build newer pitches if no one is even playing the existing ones?

i think we are in a dire situation regarding the lack of pugs

without pugs, if you dont have a team, there is literally no way for you to play proper comp

and currently, there isn't even a season on, so there is no real way to play.

everyone already says the game is dead, but honestly, this is the kind of situation which will kill eu tf2

organs harvested

that's one of the things I think is solvable: Just give more people admin, and make admin actions public. You can always take it away later if an admin is being abusive.

I completely agree with AMS. Pugs being dead is not a problem with the pug sites or pug features. I don't believe that making the "perfect" pug site would change anything.

People seem to want to play in their (sub-)communities which have strong leadership/ownership holding people accountable. (See tf2pickup.xx and discord pug servers)

The thing is, this means different things to different people. To some, this means that people need to be "trying" in the pug. To others, this means that everyone should be having fun. While those two things don't necessarily contradict, I think this hints at a divide in the playerbase between higher/lower div players.

It's defo true that people need to behave a bit more maturely when pugging.

This already exists in the form of tf2c. I don't really understand why people would want that.
The same goes for fcfs pugs. These already exist, but no one uses them.

If you want, I can list a bunch of features that the "perfect" pug site would have (for me). But as I mentioned earlier, I don't think that it's a site features issue.

old ams would never get div checked by these nerds

old ams hitting like a BRICK

they ruined propugs for no reason

why are they putting effort into re-vibe coding the site when it was working fine
the latest change just removed a bunch of features and added discord linking which we didnt need

and it also broke map selection and the config so propugs is unplayable now

just take the average log size * the number of logs (which is prominently displayed on the logs.tf front page)

this really sucks. it basically guarantees that games will stalemate at last after midfights. As it stands currently, you can already spawn on kritz after your medic dies at mid and hard build, and basically get kritz midfight at last.

+ all the random defensive offclassing bs

that's kind of the idea.
currently on disad you can run away at scout speed while building and the enemy team can't do anything about it.

since the medic gets scout speed while building, the disad team can hold closer, making getting a point without having to use really hard.

if scout wasn't able to build, you would have to pick between running away and building. which basically means ad situations would last ~10s longer. this means less stalemates (which are boring).

the other thing that forcing a demo/solly to build does it it means the demo/soldier cant spam the chokes as hard, which also makes pushing with ad easier.

it's not a super big change imo and it's pretty "vanilla", as in, it doesn't require any special plugins/mods. would be down to give it a try.

a third koth map in the pool would be cool. just make sure it's not a sniper fest