I just want to get un-vaccinated at this point That way I can join in on all the free shit they are giving away that I missed out on the first time around!

I swear, all these free "incentives" they are giving away to get people vaccinated is bullshit. Rewarding bad behavior at its best.

Free Money, Free lottery tickets, free beer, free guns, free tickets to sporting events, etc, etc.

We're gonna be talking about the virus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4F5AP1WRYk

qsd

free guns ??!

Well I'll just try to phrase my thoughts more compactly. We are already in a very surveilled world with cameras all around us. We are already accustomed to having a device in our pockets that tracks our location, has a microphone and a camera where ever we go. Kids born in this century have no clue what privacy is, everything since their birth is on the internet, on social media platforms. All our data is just taken from us and sold. No shit right? I didn't think anything of it when I was younger.

I think you understand where I'm coming from with my worries? Why would someone want to control all the people? Why does Xi Jinping look like Winnie the Pooh and (allegedly) enjoy power and (allegedly) run a communistic and from what it looks like, quite a fucked up surveillance state where people can't think freely? Why is the sky blue? Why is my toaster hearing voices? These are all important questions. Power corrupts people. It's just now we have the conditions and tools for a really nasty development into something scary. Of course it doesn't immediately mean that's the case.

But I'm most likely in the wrong here. I guess we just take the bet and trust our governments. I know the current technology is so useful and has great potential for good but also bad. Many people(me included) are pretty clued to these screens, constant stimulation, entertainment and worse yet, TF2. Not that people many think that much about these things. The circumstances are pretty ideal for power hungry governments to slowly plan something behind us, if so desired. Development into a totalitarian society doesn't happen overnight. Step by step.

End of thread I guess. I admit my arguments on this topic have been very flawed and need a lot of reconsideration. I appreciate the answers.

Edit: well I mean our data is not necessarily taken, we just more or less consciously give it away but w/e

Here it seems like more and more corruption within the politicians and officials keep unveiling. And our country is supposed to be one of the least corrupted ones in the World.

A lot of this can be contextualised by the awkward (and arguably, regrettably, failed) transition societies have had to make from hyper-individualism rooted in a neoliberal economy to suddenly needing to take collective "well-being" into account. The whole notion that vaccines are only really effective at eradicating a virus if everyone participates is understandably hard to grasp when we have been socialised to think about ourselves / our tangible loved ones all our lives. It's only normal a lot of people are going to think "why should I potentially risk my health with this vaccine" even though, rationally, the real consideration should be "if I don't take this vaccine I am actively endangering (more abstract) others." Despite its challenges, it's an important mental shift to make, I think, even if it's just for the sake of regaining your own personal freedoms.

I do understand your scepticism about the extension of the state's power. Sadly, due to the absence of any real collective spirit as I addressed earlier, the state is really the only vessel that can ensure effective measure is taken against the pandemic, either by incentivising you to take the vaccine or punishing you for not taking it. That being said, I agree it's important to remain sceptical and aware of the newfound liberties a government can take during these circumstances as, like with any crisis, it opens up opportunities for those with less humanitarian interests to take control. In Belgium, for example, we had drones surveilling people to ensure they were not violating curfew. While, again, this was done in the "best interests of society," it is easy to see how the normalisation of this new level of state control can lead to abuse later on.

TLDR: it's ok to be sceptical of increased governmental control, but taking the vaccine has little to do with that issue, in my opinion. You take the vaccine to fight the spread of a virus that kills people. Being sceptical about the new political climate COVID 19 has fostered is a different issue.

So I've never really understood the "get vaccinated to slow the spread" argument. It's a known fact that vaccinated people are still transmitting the virus to others. Besides that, if the 3rd wave does come (apparently it already is coming?) and we are all forced in our homes again, what is the incentive to get vaccinated?

For the record, I vaccinated just to live a normal life, eat in cafe's and cultural events. I really don't think that the governments are trying to kill us, that doesn't give them any benefit at all.

so much misinformation in 1 post....
-vaccines help prevent infection period. this means that there is a lesser chance of someone spreading the disease, because they likely won't get infected anyway.
-if someone vaccinated DOES get infected, they will have a dramatically lower chance of being hospitalized or dying from covid.
-children and young adults CAN STILL have severe long-term effects from covid. how is death the only negative effect of covid that seems to be significant to you?
-long term effects of vaccines, sure, I guess we don't totally know that. but it's not like you haven't had vaccinations before lmao, there's no reason to believe there are significant harmful long term effects.
-2000 adverse effects out of 3.7 million vaccinations. I would bet that most of these are allergic reactions, which, fair enough, unlucky, but easily treatable.
-I do not believe you when you say that there are over 100 vaccine-related deaths in Finland. in the US, there have been a total of 3 deaths that have been confirmed to be caused by a vaccine, and they were blood clots from J&J (which isn't even a common vaccine to get anyway)

I don't know what kind of "control" you think the government is getting out of this pandemic, or having people get vaccinated. the pandemic has wrecked the economies of every country, forced governments to change their agenda in a matter of weeks, and killed millions of people. It's okay to ask questions about science, but I don't think that's what you're doing. There's an abundance of evidence, piles and piles of it, but disagreeing with vaccines being safe is just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. it's dangerous and pointless, there's no evidence to present that would persuade me otherwise.

please stop arguing and let this thread die

I think you're making the fundamental mistake of assuming you not being given a platform to express your opinion is the same as you being silenced.

I'm gonna put it bluntly, your interpretation is based on a too generalized idea of how governments function, misinformation about vaccines, and a poor understanding of how countries develop authoritarian tendancies. I'm not gonna pretend to be an expert on any of these points and others have already pointed out the vaccine stuff. However the highlighted sentance in the quote perfectly illustrates this - honestly it reads like something a teen wrote 1 week after becoming an ancap.

"Governments" of different political leanings don't just develop authoritarian tendancies randomly. If you look at how actual totalitarian & authoritarian states developed, like how it happened in Nazi germany, China, or other countries it's often premeditated, often involving coercion at gunpoint or introductions of new laws that infringe rights. Look at Hungary, and how Viktor Orbán used the current pandemic to make powergrabs. Is that really analogous in any way to banning mass social gatherings, having lockdowns/mask mandates etc? You are just placing an unreasonable amount of criticism and behind it is due to your (apparent) fundamental belief that "governments are evil", which they certainly can be but like people governments can do bad and good things.

It's insanely irrational to, based on a ramble about how china is a totalitarian state, develop trust issues with every single other government on the earth (and most distrusting toward scientifically proven countermeasures to covid?)

Yup, just do search on google for Vaccine Free Guns. Was done in several places.

How many countries in the Western world have been trending towards more liberty in recent years and how many towards more government intervention, surveillance or authoritarianism? Not to mention those handful of 'private companies' all based within a few miles of each other who can vaporise your entire online presence on a whim should they choose.

It's extremely naive to suggest that just because we are currently in a better situation than China or the Soviet Union that our current governments would be unable or unwilling to claim greater authority if given the opportunity. Even if you agree with all the various pandemic restrictions over the last year, it should be somewhat concerning that so many governments have been able to remove such fundamental civil liberties from their citizens, in most cases with absolutely no mandate. It's a bit of a cliche at this point, but the Patriot Act is a good example of how a government can use a perceived crisis to gain more authority, and how subsequent administrations won't necessarily be inclined to relinquish it.

Silicon valley tech companies are not the Finnish government nor are they any other government. Silicon Valley lobbyists succeeding to get rid of data protection laws are also not an action of any government.

Lockdowns in and of themselves are not a symptom of governments trying to "grab too much power".
When Viktor Orban wants indefinate control of his country to "deal with covid" isn't the fucking same as having a fucking mask mandate.
The US expanding it's surveillance state under the guise of "counter-terrorism" is not equivalent of covid lockdowns.

Just because there's a theoretical possibility of a government grabbing power due to a societal instability doesn't mean literally every action they take is a precursor or symptom of them doing it.

Based on you calling it a 'perceived crisis' I take it you actually don't believe it is a crisis?????

I am in no way "naive" for not distrusting scientifically proven countermeasures to pandemics, but I'm in fact very skeptical to government surveillance, tech oligopolies, and countries becoming authoritarian, but as I explained that stuff doesn't just randomly happen.

honestly, every single mainstream media source and instagram infographic telling me i have to get the vaccine and i am not allowed to question it makes me extremely skeptical. vaccine companies being completely immune from any kind of legal prosecution for damages also makes me extremely skeptical. i got the vaccine because i just want to go to out in public and i dont really care if it has negative health consequences down the line but i do not even remotely judge people who refuse to get it, and i think its really creepy how everyone is doing a strange cultural witch hunt against skeptical people who do not hold other anti-vaxxer beliefs. also, theres no way we will develop new vaccines faster than covid can mutate on its own. i suspect we basically just have a second flu season from now on.

I don't blame you for not trusting in american mainstream media, but almost every other country on earth will tell you the same. It's the scientific consensus and it's in most peoples best interest to halt the pandemic so things can return to normal.

The potential long term damage of these vaccines (that have never been proven in practice or theory) are outweighed by the benefit. People have long-term covid symptoms. There are people whose lungs are fucked up. For gods sake, your country has 620k DEATHS bc of covid. That number would have been a lot higher than it currently is if there were no available vaccines.

https://imgur.com/oBRUFKV.jpg

I don't believe in the genuine origins of a global virus with these specific effects spreading in this way from a region historically notorious for underhanded subversive indirect psychological manipulation, I don't believe the facilitators of the vaccine genuinely care about the welfare of anybody who gets it, they are the same people who shoved the only crowd actually susceptible to the symptoms ( the elderly ) into nursing homes to bloat their fatality statistics in America.

All across this country they offer little carrots dangling on strings that vary from place to place whether it be lottery tickets or free food to get the shot. Why would anybody need to do that if it was in the best interests of everyone? You don't beg a person with a broken arm to put it in a cast and not use it.

We see all of these statistics and scary numbers on TV but there is no black death in the street. There are no people keeling over and dying everywhere like the term "pandemic" implies, There are only government or corporate policies and restrictions in place instituted everywhere, videos of hazmat suits clearing city streets, hand sanitizer treys, mask culture, and social media all perpetuating the idea upholding how oh so serious and important this all is. When the pandemic started in China they showed videos of people falling over and dying? Where is that. What happened to that.

It is all shady. It is all subject to question regardless of the "morality" about "arguing against the cure" because "good people don't do that" or something retarded like that. "When a psychiatrist prescribes an antidepressant for a depressed patient, he is clearly doing that individual a favor... It would be inhumane to withhold the drug from someone who needs it..."

I think you just watch too many movies if your mental image of pandemic is throngs of zombified people falling over in the streets. Perhaps you just don't know what pandemic means? Unfortunately, despite Pitbull's best efforts, life isn't a movie or just TIVO :(

There are real people suffering from the pandemic due to the disinformation campaigns against masks and vaccines, and the consequential indifference and credulity of the people.

Maybe 200IQ post by OP to reveal all the antivaxxers in the TF2 community? Hype!

there’s a lot of mental gymnastics going on in this thread.

You can reliably trust the multiple different teams of scientists (from different countries with same motive of trying to end a global pandemic) that created their version of the covid-19 vaccine. If you’re worried about side effects or whatever, do your research before you pick. I waited a lot longer than I probably should’ve to get vaccinated bcus I didn’t want to just throw whatever in my body until it seemed kosher (so I didn’t and waited to choose the Pfizer vaccine).

Whether or not you choose to believe what the media is telling you is pretty reasonable. What’s not reasonable is trying to argue with doctors and scientists with leagues more schooling than anyone in this thread will ever see.

here’s the point I make to anyone ik irl who has fallen victim to these conspiracy theories; if you went to preschool (in America, idk how mandated vaccines are globally), you more than likely took 3+ vaccines just to be allowed in the school. Just because the measles, smallpox, and diphtheria vaccines have been around for far longer and been tested more, they were made with the same techniques and methods used to make the covid vaccine. Vaccine technology has been around and been improved on for at this point 60+ years? No reason to be a skeptic because the whole worlds’ vaccination experts took a year to solve a global issue IMO.

I'm not an antivaxxer or anything stupid but i thought people were getting hung up about the vaccine because it was using some new MRNA thing that let us get it out really quickly. I remember people saying it was going to be years and years to make a vaccine but MRNA made it way faster.

Every time I read some shit like this I always thank the fuckin lord that the virus wasn't crazy lethal, if Covid shows anything for the future, it's that we are not mentally prepared for something like that.

this is very true actually, my post isn’t really correct. The vaccine was developed with relatively new developments in vaccine technology, BUT mRNA vaccines have been studied and developed for a short while on things such as rabies, zika virus, and the stomach flu. Even tho my post wasn’t worded well I still stand on my point, these things are being made by people who are VERY very intelligent, and realistically have no agenda other than helping humanity.

I sympathize with skeptics bcus Big Brother or whatever let climate change happen, despite leagues of scientists, from different continents, proving warning signs for 30+ years. People just need to realize this is different, and they’re not being skeptical of the media or politicians that desire “control”, they’re arguing with science.

Here, learn about all the different kinds of vaccines for the SARS model; to whit our current COVID vaccine is based from. It's quite educational, don't need to know every word but please skim the various models of vaccines we have in our repertoire, it's quite eye-opening.

You'd think a whole population of trolls would be able to tell what trolling does or doesn't look like.

nobody wants to wear masks

nobody likes needles/shots

nobody likes being isolated

we do it because it keeps people safe. y'all aren't special for resisting this stuff, you're just spoiled

fuck

the amount of people who messaged me on steam after covid19 hit is insane
great post, stay safe men

lockdowns and covid measures are just boomer thanathophobia

saying that get the vaccine if ur at risk

https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2021/08/12/things-the-establishment-got-wrong-about-wuhan-coof/

;)