no, i am saying that there should already be a precedent in place. people who do insider trading know what they are getting into, they know the risk. these guys didnt, why make an example of them when a 1/2 year ban would of had the same effect on all professional players and other community members

is 1/2 years not a suitable punishment in your eyes? cuz i dont see how it would be any different either way.

what do you mean these guys didnt?

do i need to fucking write in the imaginary esports handbook "dont ddos the enemy team during a match" or "don't stream snipe your matches" or "don't fucking COMMIT LEGAL CRIMES"

please, give me a break.

I don't care if it's 6 months or 5 years, I personally and Valve DEFINITELY does not want these guys to EVER be the top story of any game of theirs, or representing any of their products in any way in any near or distant future, and that is 100% justified.

i am not saying it needs to be a rule before you are punished. i am saying there needs to be a known precedent and punishment for the crime, rather then just make an example out of the ibp or epsilon guys, it could of been 1 year or 5, people wouldnt risk throwing anymore if valve had just said "we will permaban you if we catch you"

i can 100% get on board with valve not wanting these guys representing the game, you put that in the light for me and i had never thought of it in that way before, but i still stand by what i say. i personally dont think a lifetime ban is needed. people were throwing before this story broke out, as soon as valve laid down the law people didnt fuck around with it anymore. that still would of occurred if ibp/epsilon hadnt been lifetime banned but instead valve just saying to the community the next team to throw will be permabanned. but actually communicating with people seem to be the last thing valve wanna do.

doesnt matter anyway though, valve have made their decision. i dont think much can be done to change their mind lol.

i completely agree with valve's decision

it sucks that the players are getting punished this severely, but they should have known the consequences that were going to happen if they ever got caught were going to be pretty severe

people trying to defend the players because there was no precedent or rules stated about this in the first place are being blinded by players they like, no matter how you look at it they made a very stupid decision that did make a lot of people lose a lot of money (even if it was in the form of virtual currency)

these players are being used as a precedent about how serious the crime they did is, and i think it would really dissuade any future professional players from throwing matches based on this judgment

it is incredibly lame that valve didn't release an official statement until after a year, but i still stand by with what i said a year ago, these people deserved to be banned for what they did

I realize he was caught as a manager and not a player, but the lifetime ban for gambling on your own team isnt unprecedented. Look at Pete Rose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Rose

the entire team has to be complicit in the decision but I don't think people are aware of how shitty it is when a few players on your team including your leader say "we're throwing this game for skins and if you don't do it then I'm quitting or you're cut or something"

even if you massively disagree with the decision how many people actually have the Moral Fiber (NOT with these consequences in mind, think to their shoes where it's a match that they feel like doesn't even matter) to be like "no I'm leaving this team if you guys all go through with this"

I mean looking at a majority of the CEVO TF2 games that were treated like complete jokes (I know it's not the same scale, CEVO is at least a respectable league in CS), how can you fault five entire players for the actions and decisions of 1 or 2

you have to figure if you're in their shoes they really think "OK is it worth it to make a huge fit over this or can I just listen to my dumb leader ingame and we'll figure it out afterward"

acting like it was the entire team's decision to collectively throw the match and cash out on community skins is straight wrong and unfair

that being said I actually think the punishment only sucks because there aren't a lot of good players, otherwise it's pretty reasonable imo if you care about upholding integrity of esports which seems like its biggest downfall (the adderall shit comes to mind)

Pete Rose's ban got reviewed this year and upheld because he lives in Las Vegas and still regularly bets on baseball (and because he lied about that fact at first)

Also, recommended read on the topic:
http://www.dailydot.com/esports/ibuypower-permaban-valve-decision-unfair-system/

It's pretty similar to my belief on the issue, which is as follows:

1. Valve is within their rights to ban the players permanently from valve events

2. There is no reason that valve bans should entail bans from all the upcoming giant events- turner league, blizzard mlg, etc.

I honestly think it's ludicrous that the developer of the game gets extra authority over players when they serve no extra administrative function in the actual competitive scene. yeah they donate prize money (an amount that is looking increasingly puny...and which has already been matched by tournaments valve had nothing to do with). so what? if razer or logitech demanded that the ibp people be banned we would laugh them out of town

it's not like riot where valve actually runs the tournament circuit, all they do is interfere in stupid and negative ways (poorly timed updates and map pool changes, stupid rules that no tournament would choose on their own, etc.)

It's up to the non-major tournaments to allow them or not. They can still be major players in non-valve events, though it's going to be tough to make a team that can't compete in the big tournaments.

Also, the only thing worse than this is the people wanting VP getting banned for their betting on a finished game. It makes me insane that people can compare match fixing for bet $$ to exploiting a betting site's error. I hate the skin betting scene so much since it's legalized gambling for non-adults (and why iBP have ended up where they are now). Too bad valve makes money from the skin betting scene thriving.

I'm actually very split on this decision for a couple of reasons

1. It's obviously wrong to purposefully throw a match in which people have bet items in real world money on. If valve doesn't come down hard on them (in my opinion, anything less than a permanent ban would have made them look bad), then it would give people a reason to not trust valve and buy their products and everything, killing their overall revenue AND reputation. It's not by a ton, but it's still enough to get a fire started as a boycott.

2. I do believe the perma bans were quite steep, but if a short punishment sentence occurs (no going to valve events for X years), then another team can have outside clients heavily invest in the opposition, knowing that the favored team will get them rich, and then they can split the pot, only at the expense of a couple years out of action. It'll be their "last laugh" as they exit the scene, exiting with lots of money and only a temporary ban, which they could come back later and do again (theoretically).

In conclusion: It was great getting to watch these guys when they played, but it's a shame to see them go out in such a shameful fashion and know they they'll never be looked at as the same people. But valve did do the right thing at putting their foot down when something big like this happened.

TL:DR - read the conclusion

I don't understand how everyone's like "omg you can't ban these people for LIFE, just ban them for 5 years!!"

How long do you think this video game is going to be around?

The question is, would any tournament host rather have IBP play or have extra prizemoney, stickers, those crates that give you souvenirs for viewers, and front page on the main menu, which will get you way more viewers?

There's way more to it than just prizemoney. When you play against the person that owns the game, you'll lose every single time. Even if there was no prizemoney I'd wager any tournament host would side with valve. Razer and logitech don't have any power in csgo, if valve chooses to promote every event but yours, then you're probably fucked in terms of viewership, and you have to justify to sponsors why you chose to allow matchfixers to play instead of taking support from the big boss.

Factors taking into consideration, it's justified, but sad; especially for swag which I believe was just 17 at the time.

I'm sure many other teams threw games, like people have said before, just wish it wasn't such a talented group.

I agree with your points but as CSGO doesn't have an over ruling governing body Valve is taking up that position albeit loosely. I feel that they don't want a situation where these tournaments and decisions are split by different organisations where these players can take part in some tournaments but not all.

I feel as well that these guys have been made an example of as match fixing is apparent in every sport in some way. As this concerns skins which makes it easier for Valve to trace it's best that they try and go hard on it now instead of showing any lenience at all. You could say the lack of communication or rules from Valve should be taken in to account, but they did ban Arrow Gaming in dota2 a year before and reiterated at TI4 that match fixers will get a permanent ban from all Valve related tournaments.

Naturally common sense comes in to play with these things, fixing a match for your own monetary gain is fucking stupid and nobody could possibly think that if they were caught they would be except from punishment just because it's not written on a scroll somewhere that reads "thoust shall not throw 4 skins"

hi guys skadoodle here only reason i didnt get banned is because i turned down the skins after i saw an article come out talking about what happened woopsy daisy