I have a 2600x. I can say even with the JEDEC 2133mhz ram (def settings) i get over 200fps in tf2. You might be doing some things wrong. I know the stock cooler is a piece of garbage though and im sure if you buy an aftermarket air cooler you will get 100-200mhz more.

Several things may be able to do:

You can PBO and undervolt and you can get some nice performance gains. Normally i only have 4ghz too, but i can get 150-200mhz extra by doing it. Watch buildzoids video on how to do it, its nice. 2nd gen ryzen PBO is quite dumb so its pretty much necessary : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ8zdprzEjI

Second: set a static vcore voltage. I set 1.3125v in the bios with load-line calibration.get like 1.29v. This way i "break" precision boost 2 and have better clocks, therefore higher performance. Ive used this and seen no adverse effect on my cpu. You should run Cinebench or something to find out what the CPU naturally sets the voltage to and sort of work around that. Your CPU wont downvolt at idle if you do this.

Third: Manual OC. Most 2600xs, especially if its 2019 era silicon can hit 4.25ghz with 1.35v. I can hit that with 1.325v. But of course you need good cooling to do that. Ive found manual OC takes more time to tune compared to PBO+undervolt. And around 1.33-1.35v is the maximum you can do with good cooling on these chips. I wouldnt do this because your manual OC clock speed will probably be lower than your normal clock speed ingame.

Fourth: Memory Overclocking. You probably have bad memory chips as it is 3200 cl16. But that doesnt mean you cant keep the same effective timings but increase the memory frequency. You would want to do that to increase infinity fabric link speed. Most 2600xs can do memory speeds of 3333 to 3533. Use Ryzen DRAM Calculator and follow some guides on how to properly overclock your memory. This can be risky/annoying to do so i would save this until you are absolutely desperate. Just remember if you do this memory testing for 24/48 hours is imperative.

as for monitors im not in the know but im sure some people will tell you what is the best. Sorry for the wall of text :>

#3612
Yeah, you're in a somewhat shitty situation.
You fell for the advertising. 3200 MHz isn't some great achievement for a 2600X. 1800X on launch day, sure, but with a 2600X (which already supports 2933 JEDEC, without XMP) and a mature BIOS it's really not some great achievement anymore. That's the least of your worries though.

Your motherboard is a dead end. Even upgrading to a 3600(X) wouldn't do anything. You'll run into the same problem as with overclocking the 2600X. It's simply a race whether your CPU or VRMs will hit their temperature limit first. A cooler won't help if you don't seriously beef up the airflow inside the case to help the VRMs. Even then it'll be a struggle.
Better thermal paste is a meme. 0.2 °C less won't fix a heat problem.

Either way you should probably be more specific about it "not cutting it". I mean you can definitely get the 2600X to 4.2 (or at least close enough) and have it stay there, it's just a matter of how painful and expensive it'll be. But will that fix your problem? You're saying it's already above 4.0, sometimes even at 4.1 so getting it to 4.2 would mean less than 5% more fps. I doubt that's what you're looking for.
Coming from a 2600X in a suboptimal configuration (bad cooling, bad VRMs, slow RAM) does mean that a 9600K @5.0 is a much bigger ugprade than if you were running let's say a 3600 under ideal conditions but I've still got no idea if it would be enough. How much more fps do you want/need? This is further complicated by how sensitive TF2 is to RAM latency. You can't afford cheaping out on the RAM or you'll risk losing half of your potential gains, but at the same time your budget is kind of forcing you to cheap out on the RAM if you want a 9600K.

Regarding the monitors: What are you looking for? Is the only criterion that it must cost between 400 and 500 CAD or do you have actual requirements? Why would you even go by price instead of by features/performance? Do you expect there to be some magic ranking that can tell you which is the absolute best monitor in a certain price range?

Finally getting around to it, its been long overdue.

Looking to build a workstation / gaming PC with a budget around 600-800 EUR. It would be used for 1080p and sometimes 4K editing, and some gaming. From what I gather, Ryzen CPU would be my best bet here.. Don't need periferals.

Hey, I ordered these parts from newegg

AMD RYZEN 5 3600 6-Core 3.6 GHz (4.2 GHz Max Boost) Socket AM4 65W 100-100000031BOX Desktop Processor

G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16D-16GVKB

MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX AM4 AMD B450 SATA 6Gb/s ATX AMD Motherboard

however, they just told me that the tomahawk max is out of stock and refunded my order. my current motherboard isn't compatible with the new ryzen cpu's.

does anyone have any recommendations for a motherboard to go with these that isn't too expensive?

my current gpu is a 1050ti 4gb, power supply is corsair vengeance 750W

#3615
Contacted me on steam, I assume it's taken care of.

#3616
Are you looking for similar price, similar VRM quality or similar features? You can probably choose at most two out of three.
Does full ATX matter or is µATX fine?
Does it have to work with Ryzen 3000 out of the box or at least allow for CPU-less BIOS updates or are you willing to suffer through the whole ordeal of requesting and using the AMD update/boot kit?
Does it have to be in stock at newegg?

similar quality, I'm willing spend ~250CAD

did some googling on ATX and I'm pretty sure uATX is fine, but honestly I'm not sure how I'd know which one I'd need

Needs to work out of the box

Does not need to be in stock at newegg, just needs to ship to canada

Yeah, unless you need more than 4 PCIe slots µATX will make no difference.

Out of the box and not even CPU-less update means we're done to less than a handful of B450 boards in your price range but they've all got worse VRMs. 90% sure an ASRock B450M Pro4-F would work out of the box and the VRMs aren't that much worse than the Tomahawk's but other than that the stock situation according to pcpartpicker Canada is looking quite dire.
With your budget you could just say fuck it and get an Asus PRIME X570-P or TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (slightly better VRMs)
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/McfFf7/asus-prime-x570-p-atx-am4-motherboard-prime-x570-p
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/whMTwP/asus-tuf-gaming-x570-plus-atx-am4-motherboard-tuf-gaming-x570-plus
though both are massively overkill for just a 3600.

do you think I'm better off just waiting for them to restock the tomahawk?

also as far as out of the box, I'm not really informed in how it works. If it doesn't work out of the box I need a 2nd gen ryzen to update the BIOS right? Or would I be able to use the i5 I have now to update the BIOS?

Yes.

1st gen would work too. Either way AMD will send you one + return label for free if you can provide proof of purchase for CPU and mobo.

No, Intel uses different sockets. Also "i5" tells me nothing, Intel changes sockets every two years and i5s have existed for well over a decade.

Need some help since I don't know much about computers

I currently own a dell inspiron 3650 that has a i7-6700, a r9 360, and 16gb ram.

I am looking to build a new pc to replace my dell inspiron I bought in late 2016. I want to save money by using the cpu that I currently use in my new build. Should I buy a new cpu or is that ok? I do not plan on overclocking. Also should I try and use the 2 sticks of 8gb ram in the next build or buy a new set of ram? The current set of ram is DDR3L @ 1600MHz.

This is the computer I am planning on building while reusing the cpu : https://pcpartpicker.com/list/V3KTgJ
What can I do to improve this build?
Can I build a pc with a new cpu for the same amount of 1000USD and get better performance than I would from salvaging the old cpu?

Help is greatly appreciated.

What do you plan on doing with the pc. When do you plan on building it

I know those dell units have proprietary PSUs which is why you cant upgrade past anything that needs 6pin power, which is then why you are wanting to "upgrade".

Considering the fact you have all new components disregarding the cpu, you might as well buy a new pc all together. You can spend a bit more and get waaay more performance and features, like higher than 2400 ram speed, overclocking/pbo, better I/O like USB 3.1 gen 2 and more cores.

That 3200mhz ram is going to waste on that h270 board, since 2400mhz is the max speed. h270 is a garbage platform in 2020. No upgrade path, same old skylake quadcores. And since you dont plan on an oc its worthless for gaming considering that board is overpriced.

RTX 3000 is coming out soon as well as refreshed zen 2, so it may be worthwhile to wait

#3622
What #3623 said, but he forgot the most important question: Why are you upgrading? What are you trying to achieve?
That's not quite the same as what you're going to use it for, it's about what you want to improve compared to your current pc. That'll decide which parts you need to replace and how much faster the new ones need to be.

I want to upgrade because I am unable to maintain a constant 144fps in games other than tf2 and csgo. I can manage a constant 180fps in tf2 on mids. My computer struggles with games like valorant and risk of rain even on the lowest settings. The computer is mainly for games and streaming. My goal is to have a stable 144fps in modern games while streaming.

Taking your suggestions is this better ? https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3dxpk6

I'd like to have the computer built within the month, how long would it take for the gpu/cpu/mobo to be in stock?

Apart from streaming you're just GPU limited. At least I'm fairly sure that risk of rain and valorant aren't CPU limited by a 6700 on lowest settings unless you want >300 fps.

So you absolutely need a new GPU, a new PSU and should probably get a new case as well.
The rest depends on how you want to handle streaming. If you want to stick with CPU encoding I wouldn't stop at 6 cores but you can already barely afford 6 with your budget. Although it is debatable whether you really need an RTX 2060 or could make do with something cheaper. Sure, you need something faster than a 360, but do you really need something 4.5 times as fast?
The other option would be to use GPU encoding, keep everything but the GPU, PSU (you'll need an adapter cable because Dell) and case and be done with it.
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/jn2hwh
Switched to a PSU that's in stock, but honestly, something cheaper would be enough for that 350W build.

Would like some help/advice for my new PC. My budget is around £4000 although I don't think it will all be needed. I was looking at a 3900x and 2080ti with 32GB of 3600 RAM. This will be for streaming as well as for my own personal work playing mainly TF2 and CSGO but also some of the newer AAA titles that are being released this year (e.g AC Valhalla). Mainly need advice whether I should purchase this now or wait for the next cards/CPUs to be released and what motherboard I should go for.

Matisse Refresh (Zen2 CPUs) supposedly 7/7, nVidia GPUs starting in September (whole lineup will need a while). AMD GPUs and Zen3 most likely Q4. Definitely wait at least a month.

Alright I will wait a while thank you :)

Hi,

I have been recommended your services for overlooking possible PC builds. This is what I have put together so far, https://au.pcpartpicker.com/user/jjoshea/saved/. Basically looking to mainly play TF2 & R6 Siege constantly over 144 and into the 200s if possible. However, I play other games as well and my goal is basically to be able to achieve over 144 in any modern shooter I might play such as Apex, Rust, PUBG etc. My Budget is about AUD $2000 give or take a few hundred.

Any help I could receive is great, probably looking to buy within the next few months so nothing urgent.

EDIT: I've made quite a few changes to the build, mainly have gone and removed the GPU as I think I'll stick with my 970 for a while to see what happens to prices over the coming months when the 30 series launches and/or black Friday happens. Also the case is a toss up between the p400a and the Lancool II Mesh atm.

Well by the time you buy Matisse Refresh (3600XT) will be a thing. Some general advice:
Either commit to spending a lot of money on overclocking or don't. You'll always be held back by the weakest link.
The 212 Evo is a budget cooler, but it isn't particularly cheap in Australia so it makes no sense to buy it, especially if you're spending 300$ on a mobo.
Though I wouldn't recommend spending that much money on an X570 without a good reason. B450 is good enough and with B550 you wouldn't even have to worry about updating the BIOS for a 3600XT so that'd be both easier and cheaper.
Don't cheap out on the RAM, you can afford better timings. Check the mobo QVL just in case. Nothing worse than RAM that won't work at the advertised frequency with your mobo.
GPU depends on the settings, you might not need a 2070 Super.

https://tpucdn.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2060-super/images/rainbow-six-siege-1920-1080.png

A 2060 Super is much close to a 2070 than to a 2060. The performance difference is a lot less than the almost 1/3 of the price you save compared to a 2070 Super (and like I said you might not even need a 2060 Super).
That said if you can find a cheaper 2070 Super (e.g. one is on sale for 750$ right now) it's worth considering because it is a significant step up from the 2060 Super/2070.

I'm looking into buying an aftermarket cooler for my 3700x, the stock cooler is ok but it gets a bit loud under load imo and I'm sure an aftermarket cooler will also keep temps down better (currently maxing around 75C, no OC or real tweaking done).

I 100% do not want water cooling, and I'm sure that the hyper 212 is not the best shout even though it's got so many good ratings on pcpartpicker. Any suggestions for a budget around £60? I could go a bit higher if the performance gain/noise reduction is really worth it.

Personally I have seen too many great reviews of the Noctua NH-D15 cooler to not recommend although it is one of the largest air coolers on the market (£89.99 on Amazon)

It has temperature performance tests that do better that most AIO water coolers and is also quieter.

for around 70 pounds you can get a dark rock pro 4, or slightly more expensive Noctua NH-D15 for the upmost in performance+noise. These are pretty much the best air coolers you can buy. Noctua have good customer service also if that is worth anything. But they perform within 1C of each other so probably down to if you like black or beige more.

For less than 60, you can get a Cryorig h7 or a be quiet! dark rock 4, which are also good tower coolers. Ive heard good things about the ThermalRight Macho also, but i cant tell you how it performs off the top of my head.

All of these coolers are AM4 compatible out of the box so no worries there.

I have an NH-D15 and it is very quiet and performs well. It comes with updated AM4 mounting hardware despite what some sites say and low noise adapters to lower maximum RPM speeds. Easy to mount and do maintenance on it too. Just make sure your case can fit it with both fans.

From what I understand, BeQuiet! is a lower frequency but louder, so it isnt noticeable either. I havent tested this personally though so I may be wrong.

Around 45-50£:
Cryorig H5 Universal/Ultimate
be quiet! Shadow Rock 3
Alpenföhn Brocken 3
Thermalright Macho Rev. C

Around 60£:
be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Noctua NH-U12S SE-AM4
Phanteks PH-TC14PE if you can get one. A bit louder due to being a dual tower but obviously a bit cooler as well.
Same if you can find an NH-D14. For both you'll have to get a free AM4 mounting kit from the manufacturer though.

Can anyone give me advice for upgrading my setup? My current setup is an i7 4770k with a 3gb 1060, my fps drops down pretty low in tf2 so I'm thinking I'll get a new processor, I assume that would require a new motherboard? Current one is Gigabyte Z87-UD4H. Don't really play too many other games but would like to get a VR setup some time in the future so maybe I'll just get an entirely new PC and give a friend my old PC. No idea what the current recommendations are in terms of AMD vs intel or whatever. Thinking I want to get a relatively small case so I can take it to LAN's and such, any recommendations for that?

You'd also need new RAM.
If you want a new case as well that means you can only keep the SSD/HDD, GPU and maybe the PSU. Though at that point you might as well leave that in so you friend doesn't have to rebuild it, just add his own GPU and SSD/HDD. So a new build makes sense, but I'd still keep at least the GPU, HDD unless you have a good reason not to. New SSD might make sense though.

Are the low fps a new problem or just in general and you only now get around to doing something about it?

For CPUs it's about the specific models. If across the whole lineup you'd always pick the same brand the market shares wouldn't be what they are.

Budget?

Not a new problem just got a 240hz and now notice it a lot more. I have 16gb ram from my old pc but I'm thinking I'll probably just build an entirely new PC and keep the old one working. Not sure how much PC's cost these days, back in 2014 or whenever I bought my old one you could get a good setup for $1000 but maybe things have gotten cheaper (or more expensive?). In the past I know intel was better for single core (which tf2 is effectively) and gaming, is that still the case? Also, I'm thinking I would like to get a VR setup in the future, I assume that would mean getting a pretty decent GPU right?

i use a scythe fuma 2 with mine
pretty good and quiet as well, I run pretty conservative fan speeds and I top out around 65-70C
edit: I paid 55 USD for it, and it comes with a baller fucking magnetic screwdriver

#3638
I know your old PC got RAM. DDR3 still isn't going to fit into DDR4 slots, regardless of the capacity.

1000$ still gets you a good PC.

You want an easy answer when there is no easy answer. For example an i5-10500 and R5 3600X cost about the same. The 10500 is going to be a bit faster in most single threaded workloads (though slightly slower in some, there are always exceptions) but slower in multi-threaded if all other things are equal. The problem is they won't be. It's not soldered and the stock cooler isn't anything to write home about so temperatures and therefore clockrates aren't going to be great unless you buy an aftermarket cooler. However if you do that (and even if you don't because the AMD stock cooler is at least ok) you could also overclock the 3600X. The Intel motherboards are also slightly more expensive, unless you want one that actually supports RAM faster than 2666 MHz (all AMD boards do), then it's going to be a lot more expensive. TF2 likes fast RAM. So which CPU ends up actually being faster depends on how much you spend on everything else.
There is no general rule that every Intel CPU will have better single threaded performance than any AMD CPU.
Comparing CPUs with the same price doesn't work because Intel lets you pay more for everything else.
Comparing setups with the same price doesn't work because then there's still overclocking which depends on the time you invest and luck of the draw. You also need to first choose what you can even afford. What cooler? What RAM speed? And so on. Then there's the little problem that the 3600XT will be released in 5 days. B550 mobos will also offer PCIe 4.0, that's another few fps in games that depend more on the GPU.

I can tell you that if you spend 530$ on an i9-10900K, 200$ on RAM, 200$ on a Z490, 70-100$ on a cooler and then overclock it it's going to be faster single threaded than anything AMD got to offer, but beyond that everything depends on your budget.
It's all nice and good that an overclocked i5-10600K(F) will definitely beat a 3600X, overclocked or not (at least single threaded), and they've nominally got almost the same MSRP (+13$ for the K, -12$ for the KF without iGPU), but ~60$ more for the CPU (because actual retail prices are 220$ vs 280$), ~50$ more for a mobo that actually allows overclocking and another 40-70$ for a cooler because the K(F) doesn't come with one and you actually want to get an OC, not just barely run it at stock without overheating, makes that all a moot point.

Picking a brand and then choosing what you can afford is stupid.
Figure out how much performance you want/need, whether or not you want to overclock and then pick a CPU that fits the bill, regardless of brand and name.
Or pick a budget, do the rest of the build and then if you also want a GPU see which combinations of CPU, RAM, mobo, cooler and GPU you can still afford.

Thanks for all the help Setsul. It seems like the 10th gen stuff isn't quite yet available, does that go along with new releases from AMD as well in the near future? Guess it makes sense to wait until then. In terms of overclocking I'm probably not that interested in anything too crazy but I would definitely like to get more than 240fps in tf2 while streaming ideally. Not sure how much of a performance increase there is from overclocking with these newer CPUs, but my current setup I got a hyper 212 and overclocked my 4770k a bit but didn't want to go too far and have it be unstable and prone to crash. The marketing stuff for these 10th gen intel cpus says that the turbo boost turns the clock speeds up to like 4.5 or 4.8 or whatever, which seems like a smarter idea than constantly running super high clock speed and using more energy and potentially overheating. If the performance gain from overclocking isn't too drastic (in the past I remember people said overclocking your cpu speed was like the #1 way to increase tf2 performance) I would probably just leave it stock and not have to hassle with it or deal with crashes or anything.

Are there any different considerations for streaming or for running multiple monitors? You mentioned TF2 likes fast RAM, is that a big difference? I don't currently do much video editing from being busy with school and work but in the future I would probably like to be able to do it again so maybe getting AMD for the cheaper motherboard and already supporting fast RAM and better multi-threaded performance (which is important for streaming, right? I guess GPU encoding means that's a factor too). Budget wise I won't hard limit it too tight but probably would like to spend no more than $1200 on the whole set up. Would like to get a good GPU for VR stuff in the future but not a huge consideration, think CPU and RAM and stuff matters more for TF2.

Like I said, release on 7/7 so they should be available around the same time.
I don't really have an accurate read on what you'd need these days to get 240 fps (and it also depends on the settings) but I highly doubt it'll be 5 GHz. So I'd just get something that's not crippled by a 2.x GHz baseclock and with 4.5-ish or more turbo and hope for the best. Not exactly the most professional approach but it should do. If you tell me what clockrate your 4770K is running at and how many fps you're getting right now (unless you only need more when streaming, then anything not slower than a 4770K with more cores will do) I can make a better estimate of what you actually need. My guess is you wouldn't need to overclock.
Turbo/Boost clocks and overclocking aren't mutually exclusive. No one overclocks by locking the clockrate anymore. Idle, normal and turbo states still work and are switched to when appropriate, regardless of what multipliers are set as maximum.
The performance gain is still roughly linear. The more important question is do you need it? If you can get let's say 250 fps at stock it doesn't matter if overclocking would get you an extra 10 or an extra 100 fps. You don't have to spend any money and time on it if you don't need it.

Yes, streaming affects the build significantly. Either you want a lot of cores or GPU encoding. The number of monitors don't matter unless you want more than 4 (nVidia) or 6 (AMD).
I haven't done any testing with DDR4 but I've seen >10% in my testing. Super expensive RAM still doesn't make any sense but going from the cheapest RAM to something fairly good is about the same as overclocking from 4.5 to 5.0 GHz so I definitely wouldn't cheap out on it. 3200 MHz CL16 minimum, 3600 MHz CL16 if the price is ok though CL17 or 18 is still better than 3200/16.

GPU encoding would be better, both performance wise and in terms of quality should you get an nVidia card, unless you bend over backwards to cram an unreasonable number of CPU cores into your budget. Since you want a new GPU anyway I would recommend going with that. In that case you could cheap out and go with a quad core but AMD doesn't really do those anymore and buying a 150$ mobo for a 150$ quad core Intel CPU just to be able to use RAM faster than 2666 MHz feels really weird. Also for when you do do some video editing and maybe VR stuff that taxes the CPU a bit more it's nice having 6 cores.
Realistically with your budget you can easily afford a 3600X(T) and a 2060 Super or even 2070 Super, maybe a new NVMe SSD if you want it. GPU wise that might actually be overkill.
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rFffTC
That's just a rough sketch, but you get the idea.

3 steps now:
1. Tell me about the clockrate and fps so we can figure out how much single threaded performance you actually need.
2. Make a decision regarding GPU vs CPU encoding. (dislike of nVidia is a perfectly valid rerason for going with and AMD GPU which means a bit of a quality tradeoff when using GPU encoding or even using CPU encoding)
3. Wait for the new CPUs.