Hi Setsul guys,

I have an i5 2500k (never overclocked) with 32gb (salvaged) ddr3 and a gtx 1060.
Besides TF2 I sometimes play more recent titles like hitman, dying light, or cyberpunk. I use 1080p.
I aim at 100fps in ..fps, and 60 for the rest.
Even TF2 is not always stable at 120+fps when the browser runs on the second screen.
I have no plans to bin the whole PC and I'm looking at upgrades to keep gaming on w10 for another 3-5 years.

The options I think I have:
- overclock without increasing voltage (i have a decent aircooler)
- upgrade to i7 3770k/2600k
- upgrade to i7 3770k/2600k then overclock those

I have a hard time finding recent reliable benchmarks of those CPUs especially in recent games that use more threads. I don't feel I can trust gpucheck/cpu monkey types of benchmarks and would be grateful to receive some advice.

Then depending on how that goes I may later on buy a more recent gpu like a 3060 or rx 7600, no real idea yet and open to advice.

cheers

I mean you could also overclock with increased voltage?

Anyway, not sure which Hitman, but just looking at Cyberpunk 2077 benchmarks it's not happening.
https://www.pcgameshardware.de/Cyberpunk-2077-Spiel-20697/Specials/Cyberpunk-v152-Benchmark-Review-Raytracing-1398562/3/
3060 getting 63.7 fps average on 1080p Ultra (rasterizing), which is fine, 3770K on 720p max settings gets 40.5 fps. I don't think that's going to work, even with overclocking.
I checked https://www.tomshardware.com/news/cyberpunk-2077-cpu-scaling-benchmarks
and there's basically no difference from 1080p Ultra to 1080p Medium if you're cpu-limited.
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/7M7qn9U9K3nXn7qJYnQMsL.png
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/gQqHFpb6dmaqZW4vgMGDxC.png

I don't think there's any way you're going to get 60 fps in new games with a 15 year old CPU. It's clearly not working with a 12 year old CPU now, and the 3770K is just one year more recent and not nearly enough of an upgrade to buy you another 5 years.

#3944

The last time i checked overclocking I thought increased voltage reduced lifespan of the chip. Not sure how much I gain between stock voltage oc and vcore oc to figure out if it's worth it.

Sorry. I have these 2 https://store.steampowered.com/app/236870/HITMAN/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/863550/HITMAN_2/

ok. Is this game the most demanding of the last couple of years on the CPU? I could live without it if that's an outlier like supreme commander once was.

The way I read it (pls correct me):

• Cyberpunk seems to be one of the if not the hardest title on cpu at the moment
  
• i7 3770k is 20% slower than i3 9100 which would translate to ~40FPS in cyberpunk(?), not great but not unplayable either if that's only this game that demands this much.

You are just going to hit a brick wall with or without an upgrade to a 3770k. Cyberpunk can do better than 4c8t. DDR4 if done right is 3 times the bandwidth of your "salvaged" DDR3 which I assume is just a bunch of mixed 1333&1600 kits that you have running at 1333, (unless you happen to have the god tier 2133/2400MHz sticks but lets face it, you dont). AAA games do make use of the high memory bandwidth thanks to the RAM speeds and VRAM speeds improving greatly since the Sandy Bridge came out and the IPC being able to finally properly make use of all this. These new games are made mostly with current gen consoles in mind, and they use a single memory pool of very high speed &/or bandwidth VRAM.

Even overclocked the lower core count, ancient by today memory bandwidth and IPC performance is just going to make your game feel like shit no matter what you do. In heavier scenes or in any mention of intense traffic you are going to stutter bad. The allegedly 40 fps figure is max or average fps, not the 1% or 0.1% lows. Your newly yet to be bought GPU will see 40-70% usage. You will dip.

Obviously you have said that you dont want to bin this whole PC, but do you really have to? I dont see how a working 2500K+a working mobo(even better if overclockable) and 32 gigs of ram will get you way less than a 100EUR if sold. You could then buy a r5 5500/i3 12100f/13100f, a mobo and 16gb(50eur) or 32gb(80eur if you so must) of DDR4 all for less than 250eur(or 20-40 eur more with the intel because fuck them and their b660/b760 prices). With the 100EUR you would be having from selling 2500K and the rest it would all add up to 150eur give or take which brings you further a decade.

And this isnt just Cyberpunk, this has been happening for at least 2 years now and will only keep happening as they pump out new AAA titles.

anyway this was my 2 cents

If you think your CPU is on its last legs and will die immediately if you dare to increase the voltage even a little bit, then you'll need to buy a new one anyway.
I mean the goal isn't to fry it immediately, but overclocking without increasing the voltage isn't going to get you very far. Maybe not anywhere.
It still wouldn't be enough to solve your problem, so it's a moot point.

No, it's just the only one I bothered to look at benchmarks for.

No. I think Hitman 2 is roughly as bad.
Yes, I did literally tell you that the 3770K gets 40.5 fps average in the benchmark I linked. With 1% lows of 22 fps. I would not want to play like that.

#3947 shit i didnt read straight your sentence about cyberpunk projected fps. my bad.

#3946 fair points that add up to a reasonable price, (more reasonable than spending 60 eur on a 3770k alone lol) thanks. Does ddr4 3200 matter compared to ddr4 2666?

Depends, just make sure you dont get the OEM models like the green PCB no radiators because these are 99% of the time JEDEC specced(CL19 and CL22 for 2666 and 3200mhz respectively) as they are high latency low bandwidth. Considering today they cost the same there is no reason to buy 2666 other than compatibility issues or rare use cases like inability to adjust frequency and just tinkering with timings on H chipset Intel boards. Its essentially the 1333 of DDR4.

RAM in itself is a rabbit hole with people religiously trying to achieve the highest frequency with the lowest timings, paying 2x sometimes 3x for 16gb, but for what youre doing a 3200MHz CL16 kit that is as abundant as sand on this planet is fine. Dont go out paying out 30-40eur more for 1.5ns faster RAM when youre not an overclocker if you can double the capacity for that price. Just ask the German guy for a good mobo and a decent RAM kit available in stores in France because I dont know shit about MOSFET's, VRM's and power delivery on specific motherboards or anything regarding good RAM kits and their subsequent finetuning.

I ask because I may have an opportunity to get 2 kingston kcp426nd8-16 sticks from an old server (this one) for like 30 euro but it's CL19.

How much am I losing by not getting 3200 CL16 sticks?

The latency is in clocks, so 2666 CL19 is very different from 3200 CL19, let alone 3200 CL16.
Basically, 17% lower bandwidth 42.5% higher latency. It's not great.
It's better than not having RAM, and RAM is the easiest part to replace, so for cobbling together an upgrade out of used parts it's ok I guess.

Unless you really need 32GB though, I'd get 16GB of better RAM, then add more later if it turns out to be necessary.

Duly noted. Will sell my used parts then upgrade to a recent cpu , 16gb of 3200, a mobo and a newer nvme disk before thinking about gpu. Thanks again.

Hi,

This build is for a friend who mostly wants to be able to play apex and run cyberpunk in VR. I don't know enough to properly inform him so I thought I'd post here to check. Let me know if there's anything to change. Budget is ~€1400 I think.

CPU - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09VCJ2SHD/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?smid=A1IUZRVRQUH0V6&psc=1

GPU - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B096Y2NLV4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_8?smid=A2OAJ7377F756P&psc=1

32gb ram - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B081374T3G/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2AEWZ68B7P4J7&psc=1

SSD - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingston-NVMe-PCIe-2000G-SNV2S/dp/B0BDTC589G/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2NNBJF0WZ2BA9&keywords=Kingston+NV2+NVMe+PCIe+4.0+SSD&qid=1688458438&s=computers&sprefix=kingston+nv2+nvme+pcie+4.0+ssd%2Ccomputers%2C47&sr=1-4

Asus mobo - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B089HGSZ1J/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A17AS5ETPMZ9A1&psc=1

Power Supply - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08NHVW71G/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A2OAJ7377F756P&psc=1

CPU cooler- https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B087VM7HT2/ref=ewc_pr_img_5?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Case - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08C7BGV3D/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=A2OAJ7377F756P&psc=1

Hi,
I'm looking to build a pc from scratch and it will be a first time for me.

The main goal is for it to be able to run tf2 with good fps to fully use the 240hz monitor that i already have AND to be able to read, watch, edit and render heavy 4K photos and videos at a good speed (which my old 2013 pre-build computer was unsurprisingly not able to do after 8 years of service). Other than that i would like to be able to also run csgo/gta 5 decently those are the only other games that i play from time to time.

I'm looking to buy the parts of the computer this month or the next one.

Budget could be around 1,5/2k but it's highly flexible i dont mind putting more if it makes a huge difference or less if it's not going to change much for my need.

Additionnal to that, i'm looking to have high internal storage capacity around 4To to store all the photos/videos files.

As i said, it's a first time and i dont know too much about computer so any advice if i'm delusional about something or build idea is high appreciated. Tell me if i forgot something or if you have questions.

Thanks in advance

the way I see it you have 3 choices

1. stay below 1.5K and just have a nice 2022 mid range pc from scratch on AM5 platform or like a 12600k with the GPU being a 3060/4060. its going to be fluid and snappy however, will take its time while rendering anything large
   
2. be about 2K and squeeze in a nice little 3080(12gb)/3080ti/4070(maybe even ti) if you will really benefit from GPU acceleration in your software and have a nice little bonus of being able to considerably crank up graphics settings in single player for the next 2-4 years even though you never mentioned those games once
   
3. go balls deep 2.2-2.5K and have a crazy rendering rig that you can game with on the side

in which ever case you are going to need this https://www.dealabs.com/groupe/cartes-graphiques because high end GPU prices are still bonkers
i just really dont know how well recent AMD card accelerate editing software

the part I am still trying to figure out is how serious you are about the whole editing thing because it seems to me you are on a 1080p 8bit screen whereas ideally you'd have a 4K monitor with 99% DCI-P3/Adobe RGB coverage and I dont think a 240hz panel older than 2021 has even half decent gamma coverage

either way I would suggest you get 32Gb of RAM, 12Gb of VRAM and ideally at least 8 Cores, these wont do you any good in tf2 but if youre serious about your video and photo editing i would look at R7 7700/i5 13600k at the very least

figure out which of the 3 choices suits you best and ask the german guy for parts

Thanks for your reply and the GPU link deals i thought it was getting easier to get them but didnt follow anything about it the past 2 years so it's good to know

To be more precise about the editing stuff, i'm taking a lot of 4K photos/videos and regularly open/read them and my last old pc was struggling to even do that. I dont edit/render really often as it's not my job but just a hobby so it doesnt need to be really fast just to do it properly from times to times.

For the screen, you are absolutely right it was weird on my side. i dont remember which monitor i got because i didnt use it for a long time and dont have it now but i think it was one of the first cheap one that went out from iiyama way before 2021 so not good for gamma at all. I was less into photos/video at the time and more into tf2 (even tho my pc couldnt run tf2 at 240hz but i thought at the time that i would buy a new pc soon after). I was already recording 4K 10 bit knowing that i couldnt see the full result of it at the time but thinking of the long term. I'm planning on a buying a good quality 4k monitor in the future for that.

Thanks for the parts advice i think option 1/2 is more likely based on that. Will not play any single game but could go for option 2 if i see a good opportunity.

Poggers

#3954
jnki pretty much got it.
Though you could mix 1 and 2, be more conservative with the GPU since it's the easiest and most likely to be replaced in a couple of years, still get a fairly beefy CPU, but have enough money left over for a good monitor.
CS:GO / CS 2 and GTA 5 also don't need that good of a GPU, so it mostly depends on how much makes sense for hardware acceleration.
For the CPU, Intel's E-cores might help a lot, or they might not, best to check that. If they do help, Intel's probably the better choice now, though on the other hand AMD's socket AM5 is going to stick around for quite a few years, so unlike with Intel, you could actually replace the CPU with something better later.
For storage, you could either go with one big SSD, fairly simple, or get a smaller, possibly faster one (1 TB or so) and then an HDD however large you want it. Maybe two, for mirroring. The latter is more work, you'd still want to render onto the SSD to not get slowed down by the HDD, and then move it to the HDD when you're done. The advantage is that high capacity HDDs are cheaper and no one I know who does any rendering or editing has ever been content with how much storage they got. The mirroring wouldn't be a backup, doesn't protect you from accidental deletion, malware, hardware failure other than the HDD, but it does protect you against the extremely annoying situation of the HDD dying and taking last week's work with it and then you need a new HDD first because you don't have the space and then you need to put it into the case and then you need to restore stuff from backup and whoops 2 days are gone and you're way behind schedule.

Anyway, the usual questions:
1. Overclocking yes/no?
2. Which programs are you going to use?
3. Anything special you want/need? Sound dampening for the case, smaller form factor, space for more PCIe cards, e.g. a soundcard, SD card reader on the front panel?

Ok thank you for the advice about the GPU and CPU. It's unlikely that my needs are going to change in the next couple of years so i'm probably not going to upgrade the pc in short/mid term.
For the CPU, i would probably play it safe and go for an AMD in this case
For storage, i would go for the small SSD of 1to and and one higher capacity HDD on the side. I was already doing that on my previous pc and i also have a good (but slow) cloud capacity where i store the stuff i really dont want to lose and i upload very often because of previous bad experince with data loss. The editing/rendering is really a hobby and isnt so important if not too fast. It was mostly that my previous pc was unable or really slow to open large files which was frustrating.

1. overclocking no
2. Games i said previously. Excel/Word/Powerpoint for work. Using lightroom/Premiere pro for editing. Lawena for tf2. Spotify for music.
3. Sound dampering not necessary for the case, normal size case with the possibily to add one thing or 2 like extra HDD and a soundcard , SD card reader for front panel yes absolutely thanks for thinking of that. Cant think of anything else for now.

Thanks a lot for your help

Ok, so from what I'm seeing in Lightroom/Premiere Pro benchmarks, an i5-13600 probably would be faster than a 7700(X) and it's cheaper.
For 13700 vs 7900X it swings back in AMD's favour, and 13900 vs 7950X Intel wins again.
If you wanted/need a K CPU and a Z mobo for overclocking it would be different, but since you don't and are not planning to replace the CPU, it would actually work fairly well for you, so I thought I should mention it.
For the GPU, something in the 4060 to 4060 Ti range should be enough. Those are about the same performance in games as a 3060 Ti or 3070, but for hardware editing the older ones actually seem to do a bit better. It makes sense, the older ones need more hardware (and power) to achieve the same in games, but for pure number crunching, having more hardware is beneficial.
For the mobo and case, I'd got with µATX, which sounds a lot smaller than it is. You don't need the 7 PCIe slots full ATX offers, nor a full-height case where you can stack 10 HDDs on top of each other. 4 PCIe slots are enough for a triple slot GPU and a sound card, and 2 HDD slots are mostly standard still for µATX, I think.
I didn't ask, but do you need a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray drive? Just so we know how many external slots the case needs. A 3.5" would be enough for a card reader, but those are becoming rarer, and most cases that come with an external slot only got a single 5.25", which would be enough if you want an ODD and a card reader. Not that there aren't those with 5.25" + 3.5" (very rare) or simply 2x5.25", it simply limits your choice of cases a bit. And you obviously don't want to find out only during building the pc that you can't fit both ODD and card reader.

For the CPU, i feel like going for the 7900X based on price/benchmark. Thanks for the overclocking advice but yeah not planning on doing it.
For GPU, 4060 Ti is good i think for the price difference and the editing is not going to take too much time anyway.
Ok for the µATX. I dont need more than i said previously and unlikely to change for the foreseeable future.
No need for ODD, i had one in my previous case but never used it. A card reader and if possible at least 2 audio output in the case, one for headphone and one for hifi (not sure if it's a thing or if you need the soundcard for that). Thanks

this seems outdated, you should update it

#3961
As for sound, cases usually only have a front panel headphone output and microphone input, because that's all the mobos got connections for. On the rear of the mobo there will be more though, so usually you'd plug anything big and stationary into the back and headphones into the front as needed.

This is not meant to be a final partlist, just a general outline.
https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/list/PJQsbK
Pcpartpicker tends to be pretty bad outside of the US, but it's convenient to show what a build would roughly look like.

You'll need to check what's actually available and cheap in whichever shops you buy from, but the gist of it is
-7900X
-Decent cooler that fits on AM5 mobos and inside whichever case you chose. Standard tower cooler should be enough, not too thin though, 120 or 140mm fan. Dual tower if you want something even better, but you're not overclocking. Don't try to cheap out on this, the 7900X is a 170W CPU, and the cooler it runs, the higher the boost clockrates will be.
-B650 µATX mobo with 4 RAM slots. If you don't need Wifi then skip that. B650E if you want/need PCIe 5.0. 4 RAM slots because only 2 slots on a µATX mobo are the first sign that corners have been cut. Again, you're not overclocking, so you don't need anything special, and µATX is cheaper than full ATX, B650 is cheaper than X670. Avoid A620 though.
-2x16GB DDR-6000 CL36 or thereabouts should do. Just get whatever is cheap. Check the mainboard's memory compatibility list if you want to make doubly sure it'll work.
-Some sort of lower midrange 1TB SSD, that means TLC, not QLC. Tons of options here, reviews are your friend.
-Pretty much any 4-6 TB HDD will do.
-4060 Ti, again choose whichever you find a good deal for.
-Case with an external 5.25" slot (3.5" is much rarer), 2 fan included, and dust filters. Seriously, get one with dust filters.
-550W PSU (that should be plenty), 80+ Gold or better, fully modular. Check the PSU tier list or actual reviews to see if it's actually good though, 80+ is just an efficiency certificate, not a quality certificate.

There should still be enough money left for windows, if you need it, and a nice 4K monitor, especially once you actually look for better prices than just amazon.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/nz2wwc

Any comments?

I know the motherboard is a bit questionable, but it's so cheap that as long as it just supports a stable overclock in TF2/CS I don't really care. The other boards are so much more expensive that I might as well upgrade my CPU instead of bothering to overclock at all.

yes i really dont like TN panels but you want 360hz dyac so fuck am i gonna do
looks good to me but perhaps a better cooled and better power delivery on the 6700XT could be in order

I feel you on the TN panel, but no IPS has anything close to DYAC (except the pg27aqn, but that's like 500 bucks more which is the cost of a nice 4k monitor anyway). I was also considering the xg2431, but the room gets pretty bright and I didn't think it would cut it.

As far as coolers, I guess I could get a 240mm AIO but from what I have seen the performance difference isn't more than a few degrees, plus my last AIO had the pump die after a few years which kind of put me off water cooling.

Could definitely shell out a bit more for the PSU but I figured a ~50 watt buffer was fine. You're probably right on this one

im not really concerned about the CPU cooling because i dont know how hard are you gonna try and push it since 13600k can draw ~150W+ under load when OC'd and i cba to look up the clearence of your ITX case and ram sticks to figure out the best cpu cooler for you not that i know a whole lot about it

its just that some versions of dual fan cards especially budget ones Asrock included tend to sound like a hair dryer under load(shitty fans and high RPM) or have poor contact with the VRM or have shitty or not enough VRM or awful cheap cooling pads or they cheaped out on aluminum amount
if the difference is 20-30$ for a better version i would pay it gladly for the peace of mind but this also depends on how quiet you want the whole build to be, i can stand ~50-55dB because I sit in headphones/earphones all day when i use the computer

If it comes to that, I'll deshround and use some case fans and ducts. Thanks for the tips

Ok for the sound thats what i was doing before one in front and one in the back.

Thanks for the part list.
For the CPU, i found a better price than amazon as you said. I will check that for every item later
For the cooler, just to be sure the CPU cooler and case that you put in the list meet all the requirement that you tell after ?
Ok for the B650 with 4 RAM slot that you listed. Will be nice to have wifi if needed. No need for PCIe 5.0 from what i saw.
For the RAM, i should buy once 2 x 16GB and keep 2 slot empty for now ? Just making sure. I will probably try to get the exact item except if there is a huge price difference and if not will check the compatibility list thanks for the advice.
For SSD and HDD, i will have a look at that.
For the 4060 Ti, yeah once again amazon is not the best price after a quick check.
For the case, same question than the cooler before. Will probably get those 2 exacts items if so.
For the PSU, it seems that the review of the one you listed are great and he is in speculative list in your link but it seems lile the brand got a good reputation so i should be safe.

Last thing is the compatibility note of your pc part list, something that i should look into or it's fine ?
Money wise it looks perfect yeah. Will have a look if i need to buy Windows but i might have someone who have one extra. And for the 4K screen i will probably get one a bit later and use the old one for now (if he is still working :D )
Thanks a lot for your help already. Once we figure those last points, i will do a final list in 1-2 weeks and get back to you for a last check becore buying.

Like I said, you don't have to get these exact parts, a different CPU cooler is fine too, just not too small. Bigger is fine too.
For compatibility, you should mostly worry about the height. Most case manufacturers list the max height height for a cooler that fits, so check that if you're not sure.
Yes, 2x16GB with 2 slots empty. 4x8GB would work, as would 2x16GB in a mobo with only 2 slots, but 4 slots are an easy way to tell that a mobo probably doesn't suck, and 2x16GB is better for technical reasons.
Especially with the RAM, you really don't need the exact same. DDR5-6000, CL36, any kit that got that is fine.
With PSUs, just ignore brands, because almost none of them were actually built or designed by the brand that's selling them. E.g. be quiet! sells PSUs made by CWT, FSP, HEC, and Seasonic.
I didn't really pay any attention to that note, but you can get a PSU with 2x ATX12V/EPS 8-pin connectors if you're worried. The 7900X is meant to have a sustained power draw of 170W, and AM5 officially only allows 230W peak, and a single 8 pin is rated for 235W sustained, but some mobos change the default settings to allowe higher boost clocks and/or overclocking. I'm still not worried, but it's obviously cleaner if you either get a mobo with 1x 8 pin (most B650 only got 1) to go with a 1x 8 pin PSU, or mobo and PSU both with 2x 8 pin.

Setsul. 50$. 512gb nvme gen 3/4. fast and reliable.
yes i have pci-e 4.0
my usual flow chart when looking at an ssd is as followed: is it nvme? > does it have dram? is it samsung/micron?
as you can see this approach is severely flawed because i know fuck all about NAND, controllers etc

i need a drive for Premiere 23, no heavy effects or plugins, large files high bitrate 1080p/1440p. i will store absolutely nothing else on it but im kind of wary about samsung because i think they fell off significantly in terms of reliability, from the past 12 months reading honest buyer reviews they had them dying fuck knows how, and as for second hand experience i had a friend have his new 970 evo plus wear out like crazy, it was like 30% write resource capacity gone in a matter of 2 months while he wrote absolutely nothing on it, and it kept riddling with new bad blocks

i had a Micron_2200_MTFDHBA512TCK that came with my last laptop and while it was obviously faster than my dramless 240gb sata 3 bottom of the barrel phison controller drive it was still nothing to write home about, and around 80% of advertised speed

i have a store with a 980 512gb on sale, how gimped is it going to be without dram? will gen 4 improve write signficantly or improve render speed to any meaningful extent?

Easiest question first: PCIe gen only matters for bandwidth. If you've got the full 4 lanes available, then 3.0 gets up to 4 GB/s. If you want more, you need 4.0.
So it's not going to do anything for the 980, which tops out somewhere below 3 GB/s even when the SLC cache does its job. It's also terrible for sustained sequential write, tomshardware got 0.315 GB/s in their review.
If you want TLC for the endurance, DRAM for bursts and not sucking, and good sustained sequential write then I'd say Crucial P5 Plus. PCIe 4.0, tops out at 5-6 GB/s, but obviously that's all the cache, levels out around 1.8 GB/s write.
Alternatively, SK hynix Gold P31, only PCIe 3.0, so the initial burst is not nearly as impressive, only around 3 GB/s, but it can sustain 1.5 GB/s, is much more efficient, and you get a 500 TBW endurance rating at 500 GB instead of the 300 TBW everyone else seems to offer. How much truth there is to that, I don't know, but SK Hynix do build their own NAND, so they should know.