The other thing is with the crossbow you could deny soldiers jumping you

Jumping solly RJ - ~25hp + The crossbow ~50 + small fall damage ~10 + Jumping solly RJ - ~25hp = ~100 in a best care scenario. So yeah the crossbow only did 50... but the "tactical advantage" it gave some medics WAS amazing :/

This thread is unbelievable. The bottom line is that the new crossbow is better, in most situations, than the crossbow we had before all the Halloween updates(and it's not like people were complaining that the old crossbow being underpowered or anything). Like I said earlier in this thread: The old crossbow might have helped you win that crucial 1v1 after mid that happens every few rounds but with the new crossbow you can be more influential in EVERY mid fight EVERY round because you never have to take the time to reload another arrow.

*IMO*Basically, the new bow is better than the old bow in more situations than it's worse.*IMO*

So what you're saying is, everyone else is really stupid but that's just like your opinion man?

tooth is right. you guys can keep having your kneejerk cryfest over the damage nerf but the fact is that it can now be used to burst heal or spam for damage every time you pull out your primary and you don't need to sacrifice even half as much heal time as you did before

medic's always seem really entitled to unlocks that they get idk man it just keeps happening

Is this why some people are saying it feels like the reload hasn't changed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFZd_jYeJWs

valve cant count to 3, etc etc...

saw that vid on reddit

just_wow

So after Valve started some idiotic changes which we didn't need at all (after the "old" reload buff the crossbow was just fine, passive reload is a fun gimmick, but the reload was already fast enough to not require a passive reload), we now ended up with an xbow that both reloads slower and does 50% less damage.

just_wow

Probably. From ~1.4s to a given 1.5 now.

(accidental quote post)

With the new crossbow you can basically be shooting arrows constantly, whether it's to heal when people are low, or to deal damage when everyone's buffed. Although technically that might be better since you can near constantly be pressuring people with arrows, it doesn't feel as good to use because the damage is too low to have those clutch arrows to get a kill or get someone too low to push or whatever. It used to be really fun to use because of the spike damage, and trading that for higher practical dps (since you can spam it now) just isn't as fun because the dps isn't high enough to make a difference as often.

That's not to say the new arrows can't be fun to use (there's definitely something satisfying about hearing a ding or seeing +40 every few seconds, and if you got it to a point where you could hit nearly every arrow you could do a lot of work with them), it's just a really different feel that's probably better suited to a new crossbow unlock (maybe there's something decent on the workshop we could suggest to Valve?).

I think passive reload with the old damage would be a bit too powerful though, considering it would be way less of a niche weapon than needles, plus there would hardly be a downside to spamming them. Personally I'd like the old damage back, but have some other nerf like increased passive reload time and/or a lot less ammo, so that if you shoot arrows at the rate you used to before you would get the benefit of passive reload, but if you try and spam it you run out of ammo and have to keep the crosshow out to reload them, and can't heal.

"headshot me"

fuck u man u ruined my day

his opinion is right

oh were you one of those 2 snipers in that pub i'm sorry lol

I disagree. The nature of the weapon makes burst damage/healing more valuable than damage/healing over time. If they wanted to nerf the weapon they should have reverted the reload speed to 3 seconds, and kept the passive reload and damage the same. This way it's self defense capabilities are still limited and it can still have a real impact on team fights instead of being a single random spam projectile.

So we're complaining that the crossbow received a straight upgrade on October 29, and then tweaked to reasonable degree 2 days later?

it's still received a buff at the end of the day and it's still worth using over overdose at this point.

I think you're mixing up nerf and buff man.

we were in mumble talking about how the only person in that server that could out dm us was a medic and it was depressing

guys medic is a stupid op class so we gotta nerf his weapons

on the other hand scout is super difficult to do well with so we gotta buff his winger and stuff

A reasonable degree on paper, but in practice it's less useful. Clutch heals/damage are the selling point for the crossbow's use over needles, and they just nerfed it. The crossbow was exciting because it allowed the Medic to make a real contribution to the fight without pulling him away from his left clicking duties for too long. But now that contribution has been subdued significantly, and the feeling is gone. All this to presumably reign in Medic's damage output, even though there's an equally functional alternate solution that doesn't ruin the weapon at its core.

I fail to understand how the new crossbow is less useful considering you're able to put out a higher net average of healing.

You're not building uber when you're spending twice as long as you used to to put out the same amount of heals with the crossbow. You can justify a momentary break in building if you have a realistic chance of actually getting a pick or saving a teammate, but not when it takes two or three shots. Plus it's not very fun to land an amazing shot across the map and do 50 damage.

welcome to playing soldier

if you think the crossbow is less useful now then idk what to tell you

Solution: Keep passive reload, 3s reload time, pre nerf, even slightly buffed healing and damage. That way it's less spammable, still not as good for protection as needles, but can be used for burst healing/damage in "clutch" situations.

The wrangler has been left alone for over 3 years

It should be more than obvious that Valve has not had any idea how to properly balance their weapons for years now. Winger's a good example of it too. They couldn't get people to use it off of what it was originally intended to be used for so they gave it a dumb gimmick. As much as I like the extra mobility it gives me as a scout player, that's all it really is. A gimmick.

The damage nerf and apparent reload nerf (even though it was supposed to be a buff, good job valve) makes the crossbow way weaker, and it would have been perfectly fine the way it was if they had just fixed the dumb rapid fire bug.

that's actually pathetic

Er, the Wrangler was nerfed at the same time the Gunslinger was. It now has really, really bad spread beyond a certain range, as I understand it.

Still ridiculous on Level 3s but it's a lot more manageable on mini-sentries.

Just saw this on the wiki:

Baby Face's Blaster
Speed penalty changed to -10% (From -35%)
Boost is now only partially lost on air jumps instead of all jumps
Reduced Clip Size to 4
Removed 40% more accurate attribute
Removed Damage Penalty attribute
Speed at max boost is same as before (520)

Amputator
Added -20% damage penalty
Added +3 health per second when Weapon is Active bonus

Crusader's Crossbow
Updated damage over distance: bolts now do a maximum of 75 damage (+variance) at max distance

Liberty Launcher
Added 25% reduced self damage from rocket jumps

Eyelander
Moved the eye glow position to Demoman’s eye patch. Changed the color to Cursed green.