We played the exact same roster during the week and smashed them 5-0, 6-1. Only difference is they swapped forsaken for a main demo and they have been practicing all week so they had a clear intention to put up a good showing. They are not washed up like you say.

you still lost vs. a team that has only practiced for a week and have been playing overwatch for the past 6 months.

maybe next time you swill "smash" them during a game that actually matters as well.

So what if they are playing overwatch? that means they are still playing and it has only been six months. It's not as if they have just stopped games completely.

The money was clearly meant to help the teams get to dreamhack, the whole point of this was to try and get the best 4 teams possible to lan. I liked the way ozf did it where the top team can take more money if going to i58. The big lans are what people have been asking for a long time. Yet in a situation where we are trying to get the best teams to lan but teams are signing up with no intention to actually go hurts the tiny potential tf2 has. Now we end up with two top teams and whichever two teams already live close enough or have enough money to go anyway rather than 4 top teams just because people signed up with no intentions of going.

As for how to fix this maybe only give half the money now and half when they get to dreamhack? That way if teams want to just play for 500 they can but if they want more money and the chance to get more they have to turn up tolan and actually do something to help tf2 rather than just leave again. Dont get me wrong I love seeing players come back but when they come back for a week then go away again it is very disheartening and im not even the one running the event.

I'm all for LEGO and Publiclir attending if Suave/Serpents don't go, but they shouldn't be given to money as a free pass, as they should have won a qualifier.
The tournaments should be seen more like 1000€ prize, plus an invite to DHS if the team can attend.

Pretty sure SUAVE wanted to go but complications, and Serpents could if not for VISAs.

Imo the tournament should be able getting the chance to go to dreamhack more than the money, if you make the money conditional on going it would be a better thing. Also war never had any intentions in going so if suave really were serious about going they would have gotten a roster with people who at least had some intention in going, if work or whatever comes up I can understand but war has never intended on going.

As I said earlier the money should be used to help teams get to lan there isn't currently enough money in tf2 to throw away this kind of money. Even if those people "won" the 1000 euros if they care about the future of tf2 then they should use it to help other teams get to lan. But as I established I dont think suave does they have been out of this game for a while and just saw it as a chance to get easy money. I'm not sure if serpents were intending on taking part but given none of them immediately said they weren't going despite winning 1000 euros to help them go I believe they would like to take part visa issues might just prevent them.

edit: If the money is a primary thing over the invite then what is the point of calling it a qualifier if the money is more sought after than the invite, if no teams want to attend and they just want the money host a series of cups with 1000 euro prizes and give out the invites to whoever will actually turn up. Having half the qualified teams not turn up makes this not a qualifier but a series of 1000 euro cups

I don't think it's right to make that claim, you could argue the same about teams coming back to ETF2L for a season.

Does it not say more about the state of top level TF2 if a mix can just come back easily and win a 1000€ tournament against teams like LEGO and Publiclir that practice weekly?

Is this also not what we want, top players coming back to TF2 (even if it is for money)?
Aren't people swapping to OW because they think it can become an actual esports -> aka money??

You're saying this as if there were loads of demomen for them to choose from that they knew/liked enough to play with, let alone travel abroad and compete with. Even if there were people they liked, who says they would have gotten any meaningful practice with someone they hadn't played with before? Everyone on the team pretty much knew war to some extent so, being pushed for time, he was the logical choice.

Committing to a season is much more long term commitment than a weekend for a cup. Also that is why I want this team at the lan but they dont care enough about tf2 to commit to a lan or a season.

So why havent they tried to find a new demo with all the time they have now before dreamhack starts, I think outside of mike most of suave was not that commited to going, and are almost using war as a shield for why the team wont work. If svmzi kiler and mike really want to suave to go they could but they arent that bothered abotu tf2 anymore, as proven by them not playing in this prem season, which they could have used to practice with a new demo/roamer? yet despite them not caring they still played took the spot and the money from teams who still care about this game.

It's an invitational tournament. They QUALIFIED for an INVITE and they got some money you know regardless. Now as far as I know, being invited it is entirely optional to say whether or not you want to go to something. It's not like there won't be a Dreamhack tournament. It just won't be any more skillful than the ETF2L season.

Sure you can say it's disappointing as maybe the people who are actually going needed the money more but really whats more disappointing is the current prem teams being beaten by the likes of Suave and Serpents. They deserve the money as they won it fair and square.

I want to see Serpents and Suave at LAN as much as the next guy, but it's not really fair to say they can't participate in a 1000€ tournament unless they can go to LAN. Especially in the case of Serpents and their visas. Also, TF2 isn't shown money all that often. Anybody who puts a ton of hours into the game should jump at the chance to win that much and have their efforts literally pay off a little bit.

I request that these brits change their names.
Having a discussion between T0m, Tom and Tomu is unnecessarily confusing.

How are people whining about teams forming just to win qualifiers? How do your high prem teams lose to randomly formed pugteams for 1 day tourneys lmao.

Id disagree im more disappointed in that dreamhack will be less competitive and that the old players arent staying around, they have proven themselves to be better than lego publiclir which is why them going to lan would be so exciting to see if they can beat perilous and namless on lan but when their attitude to going to lan is lol maybe it is infuriating if you want to see tf2 develop. The invite to the tournament should be the main prize not the money.

I agree they deserve the win but what I am annoyed by is their apathy towards tf2, it is hurting the scene and going against the work that sideshow and others have put in to try and get something happening. What would an organiser/sponsor think when they ask what happened to two of the invited teams and sideshow has to answer "oh they just signed up for the money and dont give a shit about this game." That isnt going to attract people or sponsors we cant claim to be a small well supported community when the chance we get to go to a competitive lan get some of the best teams there and half of the top scene doesnt give a shit.

the rarity of money is why when it is in tf2 it should be used to help/incentivise growth in tf2/tf2 events. I dont know how long it will be until we get another 4000 euros thrown our way the fact that half of it is just being taken out of the community because teams who dont want to/cant use it to help the community got it.

that is probably about 15% of the annual prize money that tf2 gets in europe, from etf2l dreamhack and i58, out of the scene. That is assuming that europe gets a significant portion of the i58 money. If we had 10s or hundreds of thousands of euros in tf2 then 2000 going else where wouldnt be an issue. But we dont.

Tom you have to understand that a lot of top players are just not interested in commiting to a season anymore because they have seen it all when it comes to online competition. I personally enjoyed all the LANs i've been to (4 i-Series) and so did all others member in Suave thats why we tried to get something going for another lan. Dhs was the best option for that since lan usually rips a massive hole in your pocket.
It did not work out and it sucks.

PS: I just spoke to kiler yesterday about future suave plans and we prolly will turn up for other cups occasionally so be prepared so you can wreck us and all of this shit doesn't happen again.

you are pretty good at winning when it doesn't matter... i55 group stages, i52 up until the grand finals etc.

froyotech with 2 upgrade mercs lost to a high/lowprem mix in the first qualifier.

If they have seen it all with regards to online then they should be interested in playing lan? So if they wanted to play lan they play the qualifier. Yet if they only play the online qualifer and not turn up to lan how are they burnt with online when the only tf2 they will play is the online component and wont go to lan?

I understand that players burn out and dont want to play a season, then they should go to a lan that only lasts a few days. But they dont they just play the online component that you say they are burnt out on.

No they want the money, they dont care about the future of tf2 because they see nothing for themselves to gain from tf2 growing. So they take the money out of tf2 and let the community fund teams going to lans despite sponsors putting up money but that money gets taken out of the community by people who dont give a shit.

You are going against the work that many volunteers put in to try and grow this scene. I know I sound whiny and it doesnt matter much in the end, I just wish people who dont care about tf2 stay out of tf2 and let those who still enjoy this dying game do so and to not actively prevent us from doing so. I dont care if you earnt the money, if you want money go play cs or overwatch let the small amount of money that is in tf2 stay in tf2 rather than go to people who are just going to go play overwatch anyway.

On 200 ping

shadowburn wrecked with 200 ping against a top NA team, so bad excuse

also it was more like 120 ping, not even that bad, except for b4nny but he is a scout so no big deal against a pugchamp team

lmao

Yeah dude clockwork/grape is totally a better soldier duo than b4nny/paddie what was I thinking! Haha these stupid Americans losing with 2 "straight upgrades" while offclassing on >100 ping

How did your prem team match up vs 120 ping americans again?

we lost to the best team in the world

You can hardly call it froyotech when the only players who were actually on the classes they used in that tourney on FROYO at the time were Muma and ninjanick

how did this derail into an EU vs NA discussion wtf

it really didn't

I am in no way upset that suave or serpents participated in these cups. Half of the enjoyment of getting real competitions in the scene rather than pointless leagues is seeing these old good players come back and seeing exciting online tournaments. These qualifiers were designed to balance the benefits of growing an online cup atmosphere alongside boosting hype and a bit of help for those interested in dhs. They fulfilled their purpose and I'm happy with the end result. Would it have been nice to see Lego and publiclir win instead for example? Of course, but you can't argue with who the best teams seem to be right now.

Teams who have "quit" tf2 (i.e. don't want to play long seasons but still pug and are good) will always reform for cups because they allow for low commitment but high reward in terms of enjoyment and potential money. This is a good thing! Imagine if we had a full cup series instead of leagues and people could pop in whenever they wanted to create a dynamic tournament every few weeks. Its exciting to play and watch.

So no, they haven't "gone against all the work I've been doing", I fully anticipated suave at least taking part and doing well, and encouraged participation from teams who couldn't make it to LAN but would like to engage in online cup play. Don't sweat it. We're not at the position in the tf2 scene where you can have everything revolve around lans. We barely have a functional online scene.

Thank you sideshow

To sustain an online cup system people actually need to sign up for them. However, it is ingrained in people's mind that ETF2L is the prime place for playing TF2, so people only play online cups if they are done on ETF2L. However, if you look at it objectively, ETF2L is a really shitty system compared to online cups. If you play well for 8 weeks and focus hard, you might win prem, which will win you a whopping €500, which is half of the prize you get from winning ONE qualifier. You can not fund LAN trips from playing ETF2L alone, that's why people need to support online cups so they keep happening, and so people can actually fund themselves to LAN without having to beg the community for a fundraiser every single year.

People from all divisions, please stop prioritising ETF2L above online cups, the priority is the other way around if you want TF2 to keep living. There is a reason why SUAVE/Serpents play in these cups and not in the season. There are 200 teams in ETF2L, if just a a fifth played in online cups we would have a MUCH healthier online scene.