p.s. would also settle for banning all scout mains from commenting on game balance forever

mustard whipped out the steam messages for this one u know its good

i used to think u had functioning brain but perhaps now not so much :-)

https://i0.wp.com/post.healthline.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Crooked-bottom-teeth-1296x728-gallery_slide1.jpg?w=1155

yep unlocks are definitely what makes eu lose to na, and not you getting carried by banny

if euros had to play against b4nny slemnish and arekk every day, they would be clutching their iron bomber tighter than ever

also I was talking about when EU had 2 shotgun soldiers for like 4 years longer than anyone else, but if you want to go back to that meta by all means please do

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/video/img/upload/2012/11/screen-shot-2012-11-01-at-111832-am/video-featured.png

https://i.imgur.com/ui44vEH.png

I think after this post we should consider banning burgers from tftv

>#60

Best post mustard has made in years

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Agree mostly with your category list and which categories should/shouldn't be banned here but I think the reason being cited for the ban here is that the Iron Bomber is a straight upgrade because of a bug which I think you could argue is a more legitimate reason for banning it.

I'm still not sure it should be banned because imo even though it's a bug, I'm not sure banning the Iron Bomber would improve the game in any significant way, but I wouldn't care hugely if it was.

Thanks for making this post, was about to write a lot of angry things :-) made this image just to visualise to people how i'm viewing unlocks. not saying it's objectively correct but I've got 12k hours and have put a lot of thought into it!!! Should also stress the positioning of these unlocks is not down to scientific accuracy before i get people going "umm ackshually gunboats should be moved to da left and to da right", this is just a visual representation.

https://i.imgur.com/ejTy4NM.png

I don't know when I entered this bizarro world where we went from "iron bomber pipes are slightly easier to hit" to "bro they're literally hitscan, you can't miss, the class is so dumbed down lol"

if they were as dumbed down as you're saying then anyone would be able to just 2 pipe their way into invite, with scouts being totally helpless against a demo. need I remind you that the scout class has a double jump, and that the iron bomber is still a projectile??

it feels like scout mains remember some time where the pipe didn't look like it was gonna hit them and still did (which can also be caused by latency, or be a pipe that was going to hit them whether stock or iron bomber but hit 'earlier' because of the hitbox), and silently stewed until people found an actual gameplay bug that explains the issue. I'm sorry, the fact that literally no one was clamoring for this until the bug was found shows that the weapon was not considered overpowered. if you go with the zesty argument and say you don't like buggy or unpolished things in the game, then sure. but don't try to tell me that the thing that makes a weapon go from balanced to OP in peoples' minds is not a player who's sick at exploiting it, not months of anecdotal evidence, but literally reading a forum thread.

So ur an unlocks fascist, noted.

Nerfing the iron bomber instead of increasing the hit box of the other primaries. Indirectly buffs scout and does that class need another free handout

team fortress

california loveeeeeeeeeee

unban parachute and cow mangler while youre at it

wrap assassin is the most evil item ever to be unbanned
bad enough that people don't care to ban it
annoying enough to make you wanna off yourself when you get critballed from across mid

idk theres definitely a reason every demo in every region unanimously switched to using this despite all of the noted stats on it not being that good.
so now that weve found out what that reason is its pretty clear there is a difference and it makes sense to complain about something having double the hitbox for no reason. people havent been crying about it being op as vocally as there wasnt any hard evidence to believe it was (whereas other weapons have their OP stats written out for all to see) but i know a LOT of people suspected there was some hidden stat with it (people still spew this bs about no random spin, the pipe going faster, and different arc or whatever, which arent actually true). just cos we have lived with it so long doesnt mean we should accept it imo. if valve had put "+150% projectile size" on there we never would be having this discussion cos its stupid that the weapon does that.

I've seen a lot of dumb shit, but i just wasn't ready for this one.
You might have so much time to waste it's unbelievable

Being on the topic of banning certain weapon(s), please bring back the season 15 whitelist but with slight changes (e.g. unbanning the cloak and dagger, tomislav & sandvich mainly, maybe l'etragner and your eternal reward.)

https://whitelist.tf/etf2l_6v6_s15

this is why it's impossible to talk about this rationally, you're acting like I'm in denial that it's a straight upgrade- I literally made a post explaining why I don't believe in banning weapons just for being an upgrade!

wait, so the issue now is lack of intent? like the problem isn't whether ot not the weapon is broken, the problem is whether there's a 'reason' for it to be better? what does that even mean? what if I say "they nerfed demo massively and buffed medic and scout, which unbalanced 6s, so any help the demo class can get is worthwhile"? is that enough of a reason, or does it have to have the valve-intended seal of approval?

again, suspecting there was a hidden stat is not the same as the weapon being OP. OP is short for 'overpowered', and it refers to things that are gamebreaking, uncounterable, unbalanced, etc. just saying the iron bomber is better than stock pipes has nothing to do with any of these things.

ok, same with the demo nerf and the med speed buff, let's revert both. matter of fact, I always hear the 'ban crossbow' crowd say 'just because everyone is used to it, doesn't mean we should accept it'. I guess that means they must be correct!

or maybe we could have a valid discussion about whether or not it's stupid that the weapon does that.

You act like stock pipes were perfectly balanced and anything slightly more powerful than them is necessarily a negative impact on the balance of the game. The more consistent rollers do the opposite of lowering the skill floor as you say, because they remove that element of chance that can lead to lucky rollers chasing people around corners, or unlucky ones just bouncing in the wrong direction and not doing any damage at all. Also allows people to do more consistent roller jumps which will sometimes just be denied with stock pipes due to rng.

That's just retarded honestly. It's not like the iron bomber was added to the game and suddenly everyone was habib. There are still a ton of awful demos and if you couldn't hit pipes before, the iron bomber doesn't just magically allow you to now.

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aren't we at a point where most gameplay issues can be solved by tweaking it with plugins instead of banning?

so a jewish demo main and a turk walk into a bar...

x