The standard night is usually like 4 maps a night, 2 of each map. Some teams play less, some teams play more. The usual days teams play are Sunday to Thursday. It all depends on how keen your team is.

As long as its not a source game ban, I think its fine. There are quite a few players with vac bans on games like CoD:MW2 who play in etf2l

please no

VAC Bans related to the Source Engine are a 1 year ban on ETF2L
All other VAC-related bans are fine to play on ETF2L with.

So about what we do here, but split. Hm, maybe I'm just overestimating the amount of effort we're really putting in to learn the maps or something. Thanks for responding, user T0m.

ruleset

I started etf2l in div6, since I can remember we always played 2 maps a week, I am now on my way (almost) to div3 and got promoted every season except 1 season ago. Learning 2 maps a week was nothing major to deal with IMO.

CEVO is a very plausible solution for you guys as well and phipher looked like a guy genuinely interested in the scene, thats why I think there should be some kind of community debate on the situation.

Exactly we can't just decide by ourselves, it would have to be a big community decision or at least have the major teams and players on board.

Have to admit that does look badass. And maybe an entirely community run league could finally get valve attention?

A scrim can be one map or 2 maps depends on your schedule, for example one of my old teams did 2 pcws usually, 2 maps each, that is 4 maps/30 minutes each +/- which would be 2 hours, but sometimes people dont have time and you just play 1 map twice and another one once only. It is entirely dependent on the situation we dont have fixed rules for scrims, but I have to admit our ruleset looks much less confusing when it comes to scrims compared to yours, 30 mins timelimit is much more straightforward when scheduling whatever it is, whether it is scrims or officials.

About the maps, I have already talked about, we scrim both weekmaps usually and its no issue for us but its also common for teams who think they are well prepared for one of the maps to only scrim the map they are less prepared for. About demo reviews and whatnot can't really talk about that because unfortunately I was never on a team that had a habit of doing those.

I think y'all have definitely improved your league over the past couple of seasons. Namely the unlocks, and booting some nerdy admins. I'd definitely put it as top alternative to ESEA.

Two things I've always been iffy over about your league. Map schedule and ruleset.

The two different maps a week thing is fine. I'd be ok for that. Everyone is familiar with the maps, and teams should be able to understand what to do after one night of effective pcws (heh). But playing both the maps back to back in one night never seemed appealing to me. If you are missing one of your starters game night due to some unavoidable incident, and there isn't an agreeable reschedule timeframe, then ya gotta get some backup or merc(no one likes doing that) and play both maps. Kinda blows. There are a ton of other excuses and what not weighing on one day to score points for the week.

The 30min/5 score difference ruleset is agreeably unfavorable here in NA. You can 1-0, grab the biggest wheel of cheese, and grind that baby down for next 27mins. Cheesing the clock isn't too common, but you can do it. In NA, you can cheese the clock the first half, but momentum is reset at half and its anyone's game again. The halftime momentum change is really critical too, I believe. Teams can really turn it around the second half; it makes for exciting TF2. You can also squeeze a lot of rounds into 30mins. I can't imagine how exhausting a map like granary would be if ya keep wiping each other at mid for 30mins.

If this NA coming to ETF2L thing actually happens, I would hope y'all see it as a coming together sort of thing and not a going to you sort of thing. Ya dig? Look over ya ruleset and what not and really evaluate if this makes for the best TF2.

Cheers.

wildcard that shit

Yeah, that's another thing I don't agree with. Pretty greasy move to just cancel the match 15mins before you are suppose to play, without consent of your opponent. Waste of everyone's time. If I were ready to play a match and some clowns come to me saying "we wildcarding son, seeya in 2 weeks." like ok dude thanks.

You can use it just to cheese some opponent you got a grudge for and screw up scheduling. Putting off your 2 map 5-0 roll or some shit.

-We don't allow alt accounts

-Players that are VAC banned are monitored, and will only be banned if the VAC ban affects source games (TF2).

#38
Each team gets two wildcards per season so if your team is missing more than 2 players or doesn't want to use mercs you can wildcard it until 15 minutes before match time and get 2 weeks extension to reschedule and play it.

That means however that contrary to ESEA's "no exceptions" rule you might have to practice more than 2 maps in some weeks, but you should have practiced the "new" map already.

In theory there's only one "new" map per week: The second map is the first map of the next week, only the second map of the next week is "new". It won't go that way most of the time due to wildcards, that's the disadvantage of wildcards, you are pretty much guaranteed to be able to play all of your matches but the order might get messed up. We played out matches in that order this season: 1, 3, 2, 5, 6, 7, 4 (we had to wildcard, two weeks later they wildcarded again). More than one wildcard per team and match isn't possible and you can't play any match after week 8, the catchup week.

Playing the clock is a choice, I've never seen or done it with more than 10 minutes left and even with more than 5 minutes left it's rare.

I haven't seen any team waste one of their two wildcards just to screw up scheduling.

very well said, shrt. my thoughts exactly!

Cheers!

I understand all of these concerns you have with the ruleset, there have been many arguments on the ETF2L forums between which ruleset is 'better'. The conclusion is basically that neither is actually better than the other, it's simply what you are used to. I believe that is the case here as I have never heard any European player complain about having to play 2 different maps in one go. It will take some getting used to for sure, but it's something you will have to do if you play in ETF2L. As someone said already, wildcards are used for that sort of thing, and while frustrating while used against you, can be very useful yourself sometimes.

Both rulesets have clear positives and negatives, I feel you are being a bit unfair by leaving out the exciting endings the EU ruleset brings. Capping a round to 3-3 with 1 minutes 30 left to cap another round, or winning the game in the final seconds can be very very exciting! (Especially at LAN). Generally most teams will not cheese unless it's 1 minute left and 1 round difference or something like that, but I understand the issues it brings.

I don't really know what you mean by this, but we wouldn't dump NA over in a corner and forgot about them.

i've never heard of a team using a wildcard just to screw up the other team
in all of my 5 seasons of etf2l, the only time someone would use a wildcard 15 minutes before a match that was because they had at least 2 players who couldnt play due to emeregency issues or something like that.

perhaps europeans are a nicer, kinder people than americans, then. in the five years i have played this game, i can not think of a single person/team who was honorable and forthright in their scheduling desires. perhaps you were lucky to not encounter people who will refuse to play on any server where they have >50 ping, or people who will refuse to play at 10:30 for some reason but then scrim from 9:30 11:30 with their full starting lineup, or people who ping well to every server but know that your team is all east coast so they demand colorado only, etcetcetc. americans would abuse the fuck outta wildcards.

As long as you have admins that done respond with "whatever" or "submit a ticket" I'd be interested

well then that your problem
I live in Israel any my ping is always 70~(on the last match we had I played with 100 ping)
and our demo usually have an higher ping then me and hes from turkey so yeah europeans arent the only one who are nice :) u just need to change ur attitude man

We have an IRC if you need to contact an admin, and are generally very helpful.

etf2l admins are very good, the irc is often active and it (for me at least) I rarely have to wait a long time to get into contact with one

CTF2l - Community Team Fortress 2 League? It rhymes with the old name and sends a good message.

I'd be so down for this. Really awesome of you to be considering something like this Permzilla. I think if this were to happen it would gain traction fast since etf2l is doing great things for european tf2. Seems like a pretty low drama, trustworthy league from what I have heard.

$

I think North Americans should be allowed to vote for the ruleset they would want to use.

I would be in favor of the current NA rules, but with the current EU division setup.

I disagree, they would be doing us a favour by making a north american division. We should use their rules. It isn't too much different and wouldn't be too hard to get used to.

The ETF2L website does not support the current NA rule system, which is why there is simply not a choice and the EU rules have to be used.

Yeah, you're right.

I'm down much rather this than ugc if we move at all.

etf2l rules have worked for them for years. i'd give it a try before saying that our system is inherently better in every way

guess you've never seen a frenchie get banned