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thoughts on blackbox and shotgun roam
91
#91
6 Frags +
hooliLunacideif you start a 1v1 with a bb soldier, you both hit 3 directs, and you die, it's your fault

its almost like you have to adapt and change your playstyle vs a blackbox soldier, dont just +forward into him, die because he gets healed for 45 and think "WTF he survived what a stupid weapon". you died because you weren't thinking.
yeah, i'm all about adapting. but what if you had no prior knowledge that he was running black box? are you still an idiot? or are you simply unfortunate?

are you deaf? are you blind?

the blackbox isnt an item like mad milk or bonk, which you have literally no indication of the player running that item. if you 1v1 a scout and he throws milk on you, thats fucking stupid. you have no chance to take that item into account when fighting them. the blackbox has a very distinct sound and look. its pretty obvious when someone is running it.

[quote=hooli][quote=Lunacide]if you start a 1v1 with a bb soldier, you both hit 3 directs, and you die, it's your fault

its almost like you have to [b]adapt[/b] and change your playstyle vs a blackbox soldier, dont just +forward into him, die because he gets healed for 45 and think "WTF he survived what a stupid weapon". you died because you weren't thinking.[/quote]
yeah, i'm all about adapting. but what if you had no prior knowledge that he was running black box? are you still an idiot? or are you simply unfortunate?[/quote]


are you deaf? are you blind?

the blackbox isnt an item like mad milk or bonk, which you have literally no indication of the player running that item. if you 1v1 a scout and he throws milk on you, thats fucking stupid. you have no chance to take that item into account when fighting them. the blackbox has a very distinct sound and look. its pretty obvious when someone is running it.
92
#92
7 Frags +

direct hit should be banned because it lets you win 1v1s you usually wouldn't win and while we're at it lets also ban crossbow too much range on a medic esea please ban it

direct hit should be banned because it lets you win 1v1s you usually wouldn't win and while we're at it lets also ban crossbow too much range on a medic esea please ban it
93
#93
6 Frags +

you are a better soldier if you know you do better with BB and you choose it over your other options and don't honor code yourself because you perceive weapons as stupid

you are a better soldier if you know you do better with BB and you choose it over your other options and don't honor code yourself because you perceive weapons as stupid
94
#94
-4 Frags +
synchrohoolilisten folks im not saying the bb is OP
all i'm saying is that in a perfect world the guy who hit more of his shots should win
And... that still happens with the black box??

not in all situations, there are situations when the only reason you're alive is because you were running bb, you said it yourself

synchroOne of them had the sense to run black box, they barely live (~30 hp?)

@Lunacide, you cannot tell me that you you will have some kind of indication that someone is running bb at all times. there will be instances where there are no indications and you may lose simply because the other guy was running bb.

[quote=synchro][quote=hooli]listen folks im not saying the bb is OP
all i'm saying is that in a perfect world the guy who hit more of his shots should win[/quote]
And... that still happens with the black box??[/quote]
not in all situations, there are situations when the only reason you're alive is because you were running bb, you said it yourself

[quote=synchro]One of them had the sense to run black box, they barely live (~30 hp?)[/quote]

@Lunacide, you cannot tell me that you you will have some kind of indication that someone is running bb at all times. there will be instances where there are no indications and you may lose simply because the other guy was running bb.
95
#95
6 Frags +

there are situations where teams are surprised by kritzkrieg, which is 100 times more game changing than a pick on a roamer that wasn't deserved.

being surprised by something isn't inherently a bad thing

there are situations where teams are surprised by kritzkrieg, which is 100 times more game changing than a pick on a roamer that wasn't deserved.

being surprised by something isn't inherently a bad thing
96
#96
5 Frags +
Lunacidethere are situations where teams are surprised by kritzkrieg, which is 100 times more game changing than a pick on a roamer that wasn't deserved.

being surprised by something isn't inherently a bad thing

fox only final destination

everything else is slow, random, and not competitive

[quote=Lunacide]there are situations where teams are surprised by kritzkrieg, which is 100 times more game changing than a pick on a roamer that wasn't deserved.

being surprised by something isn't inherently a bad thing[/quote]
fox only final destination

everything else is slow, random, and not competitive
97
#97
4 Frags +
hoolinot in all situations, there are situations when the only reason you're alive is because you were running bb, you said it yourself

in that case you put yourself in an advantageous situation and one that your opponents can't easily adapt too, thus you outplayed them

hooli@Lunacide, you cannot tell me that you you will have some kind of indication that someone is running bb at all times. there will be instances where there are no indications and you may lose simply because the other guy was running bb.

if there are no indications that means the soldier has his primary holstered which puts him at a disadvantage immediately

[quote=hooli]not in all situations, there are situations when the only reason you're alive is because you were running bb, you said it yourself[/quote]

in that case you put yourself in an advantageous situation and one that your opponents can't easily adapt too, thus you outplayed them

[quote=hooli]@Lunacide, you cannot tell me that you you will have some kind of indication that someone is running bb at all times. there will be instances where there are no indications and you may lose simply because the other guy was running bb.[/quote]

if there are no indications that means the soldier has his primary holstered which puts him at a disadvantage immediately
98
#98
-2 Frags +
Lunacidethere are situations where teams are surprised by kritzkrieg, which is 100 times more game changing than a pick on a roamer that wasn't deserved.

being surprised by something isn't inherently a bad thing

i agree, being able to deceive your enemy is a very important part of the game. all im saying is in a fair fight, one should not win simply because of an unlock or chance.

[quote=Lunacide]there are situations where teams are surprised by kritzkrieg, which is 100 times more game changing than a pick on a roamer that wasn't deserved.

being surprised by something isn't inherently a bad thing[/quote]
i agree, being able to deceive your enemy is a very important part of the game. all im saying is in a fair fight, one should not win simply because of an unlock or chance.
99
#99
3 Frags +
hooliall im saying is in a fair fight, one should not win simply because of an unlock or chance.

So then you're saying that kritz shouldn't be allowed either?

[quote=hooli]all im saying is in a fair fight, one should not win simply because of an unlock or chance.[/quote]
So then you're saying that kritz shouldn't be allowed either?
100
#100
-2 Frags +
synchroSo then you're saying that kritz shouldn't be allowed either?

No; if you'd like to know more about my stance on unlocks read this post.

[quote=synchro]So then you're saying that kritz shouldn't be allowed either?[/quote]
No; if you'd like to know more about my stance on unlocks read [url=http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/16534-pick-ban-system/1#post-23]this post[/url].
101
#101
11 Frags +

the only completely fair fight in tf2 is in ammomod

the only completely fair fight in tf2 is in ammomod
102
#102
3 Frags +

hooli I'm genuinely curious to know your stance on gunboats.

If you say they have a place in 6v6 TF2: Don't they allow a roamer to escape a situation where he should have died? Don't they give a player who misses his shots a second chance by allowing him to run from a fight he would normally be committed to?

hooli I'm genuinely curious to know your stance on gunboats.

[i]If[/i] you say they have a place in 6v6 TF2: Don't they allow a roamer to escape a situation where he should have died? Don't they give a player who misses his shots a second chance by allowing him to run from a fight he would normally be committed to?
103
#103
-3 Frags +
Lunacidethe only completely fair fight in tf2 is in ammomod

i'm not saying tf2 should be a completely fair fight at all times. i'm saying when the circumstances are the same; the better player(s) should end up on top. there is a very clear distinction.

[quote=Lunacide]the only completely fair fight in tf2 is in ammomod[/quote]
i'm not saying tf2 should be a completely fair fight at all times. i'm saying when the circumstances are the same; the better player(s) should end up on top. there is a very clear distinction.
104
#104
5 Frags +

"Better" and "should" Are very subjective terms... I don't see any distinction at all. What if I think the better player is the better player because he chose an unlock for that specific circumstance?

"Better" and "should" Are very subjective terms... I don't see any distinction at all. What if I think the better player is the better player because he chose an unlock for that specific circumstance?
105
#105
-1 Frags +
toothhooli I'm genuinely curious to know your stance on gunboats.

If you say they have a place in 6v6 TF2: Don't they allow a roamer to escape a situation where he should have died? Don't they give a player who misses his shots a second chance by allowing him to run from a fight he would normally be committed to?

Yes; gunboats do allow you to escape bad situations, in the same way blackbox allows you to escape bad situations. The two unlocks both enable you to escape danger but they accomplish that in very different ways. The gunboats grant you great mobility; this allows you to able to move from point A to point B at great speeds. Being able to move around with great efficiency significantly increases the fluidity of the game; being able to quickly get in/out, being able to jump at a moments notice to support a teammate. That is something no other class or unlock can do as effectively as a gunboats roamer. When I think of a good gunboats roamer I think of an annoying bird that is flying around constantly pestering you and is always just out of reach.

Now the blackbox also enables you to get out of bad situations, but through the method of increased survivability rather than mobility. This encourages a slower more methodical play style that can delay the enemy team, which of course can be greatly effective, but in turn slows down the flow of the game.

So in conclusion mobility improves the flow of the game and gunboats provides a kind of mobility that no other class can do.

[quote=tooth]hooli I'm genuinely curious to know your stance on gunboats.

[i]If[/i] you say they have a place in 6v6 TF2: Don't they allow a roamer to escape a situation where he should have died? Don't they give a player who misses his shots a second chance by allowing him to run from a fight he would normally be committed to?[/quote]

Yes; gunboats do allow you to escape bad situations, in the same way blackbox allows you to escape bad situations. The two unlocks both enable you to escape danger but they accomplish that in very different ways. The gunboats grant you great mobility; this allows you to able to move from point A to point B at great speeds. Being able to move around with great efficiency significantly increases the fluidity of the game; being able to quickly get in/out, being able to jump at a moments notice to support a teammate. That is something no other class or unlock can do as effectively as a gunboats roamer. When I think of a good gunboats roamer I think of an annoying bird that is flying around constantly pestering you and is always just out of reach.

Now the blackbox also enables you to get out of bad situations, but through the method of increased survivability rather than mobility. This encourages a slower more methodical play style that can delay the enemy team, which of course can be greatly effective, but in turn slows down the flow of the game.

So in conclusion mobility improves the flow of the game and gunboats provides a kind of mobility that no other class can do.
106
#106
-1 Frags +
pine_beetle"Better" and "should" Are very subjective terms... I don't see any distinction at all. What if I think the better player is the better player because he chose an unlock for that specific circumstance?

I'm stating my opinion, we've been over this. Did I ever claim my opinion was objective?

[quote=pine_beetle]"Better" and "should" Are very subjective terms... I don't see any distinction at all. What if I think the better player is the better player because he chose an unlock for that specific circumstance?[/quote]
I'm stating my opinion, we've been over this. Did I ever claim my opinion was objective?
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