In other news, CSGO is on sale

Demoparachute is pretty fun. Stickying up the chokepoints from midair is a neat strat.

It's early days, I'm going to try a few things and see what can be worked out. We tried heavy today as we felt it would be hard to kill the heavy and be more stable for the team. It probably won't be a constant showing until we try more stuff.

There's a potential that the demoman could be a utility class, this doesn't upset me that much as I love playing this game anyway and I enjoy playing all classes.

I understand people being mad as it's VERY frustrating to play at the moment because we have all been used to the same thing for 7+ years.

2 demos scotish resistance let's go. dont know why anybody would want 2 demos in the game.

Your first point in this segment I quoted is totally backwards. A change to one weapon of one class is so huge precisely BECAUSE this game revolves so much about team play; the entire team dynamic changes, and as I've argued already, not in a good way.

Why should people "take it cool" when the idiots at valve do more to ruin a competitive game they clearly don't understand well at all? Certainly they understand it much worse than most actual competitive players do.

I don't know why you're saying Epsilon have an "attitude" problem for running a perma-heavy on viaduct. Maybe permaheavy on viaduct is really good now that demos can't outspam them easily, ever think of that???

it's been changed for 18 hours, it's kinda hard to make a call on that yet

You're just talking out of your ass at this point.

"Demo is still a massive damage dealer". Have you seen ANY fucking logs??? Demos are bottomdamaging or barely outdamaging 1 or 2 players.

"follow up more efficiently on the lessened damage". What damage? Like I said, a huge amount of a demo's damage (minus everyone's favorite aspect of demo, roller spam) will just be totally worthless, not capable of being followed up on efficiently at all.

"He still locks down chokes." I thought the whole (shortsighted) pro-update argument was that he doesn't lock down chokes anymore.

"He still does huge damage." Again, you're full of shit.

You are right that this update affects every class as well; it makes them all a lot easier from a gamesense point of view. That's what tf2 needed, right? Fewer players with good positioning, comms and teamwork and more MGE allstars?

So many different parts of this post make it very clear that you basically skimmed my post(s) without even trying to comprehend what I was saying.

Hate to break it to you, but the number of competitive players is almost negligible compared to all of the public players. Valve didn't make this update because they intentionally wanted to bone competitive Demos, it's because we're not a big enough blip on their radar to care. The competitive game has been made from what Valve gave us, it's not like they gave us any competitive tools to begin with.

It's possible to know enough about this game to effectively theorycraft without weeks, months, years of playtesting.

Valve doesn't know enough about this game to do so. I have confidence that (some) competitive players do.

Didn't everyone like the QF at first too lol?

ur just buttblasted lmao because something changed

That's my whole point in (somewhat) supporting a promod, and in at the very least not sucking valve's cock when it comes to game balance. Why should we care what they think or rely on their support when they do so little for us? People say we need the constant stream of pub players, but that stream is totally miniscule compared to the amount we could have if valve gave a shit. Maybe a really well-made promod, with spectator tools, custom huds/cfgs, lobby integration, better weapon balance, custom maps, tabs for competitive news and streams, and built-in access to teamfortress.tv as a community hub would attract pub players too. Maybe, while many fewer pub players would make the switch, a larger percentage of them would actually move onto playing comp.

Maybe extreme measures have to be taken to keep a 7-year old game alive.

They just halfed the damage output of an important stock weapon, without community feedback, after seven years.

The same people who liked the qf (div 4 retards and, for some reason, Classic Mixup) are advocating for this nerf. They were wrong there and they are wrong here.

QF should be unbanned imo, its not a bad/broken weapon at all. Heavies are just awful.

On a side note, the Back Scatter is essentially a scattergun with less shots (no spread negates the -20% accuracy) that sometimes hits minicrits (tf2 still has bad back detection)
wasnt even very good in dm lol

You guys are bitching over nothing because nothing is going to change.

Learn to adjust around the changes by altering heal spread, weapons, classes, or whatever you guys need to do in your respective format to be most successful as a team. If this change had happened only 6 months after release, this wouldn't be a big deal and everyone would have easily adjusted to it without any bitching whatsoever. I personally feel this is how the Sticky Launcher should have been at the start of the game's release, I am happy Valve finally took the steps to balance its offensive usage.

This patch isn't going to kill the game, it's only going to change it, learn to adjust.

if ur gonna shit on div 4 ppl for having stupid opinions and being worse than u, doesnt that mean mix& can shit on u and ur opinion is worthless and trash etc haha

How are pubs improved when the demo becomes much worse at actually pushing while sticky traps remain just as good? Heavies, too, they don't get punished for just staying revved forever in the same spot. Demos and Heavies are the damage dealers of pubs as well as Highlander. I don't see what's going to be different - pub players are going to find themselves which a much slower game when they eventually stop fucking taunting for hours on end.

Can't wait for scrims tonight! My first impressions of last night's games were that teams had to be a lot more intentional with positioning and teamfights generally drag out much longer. Shifting a team's spam capabilities to 75% demo/25% soldiers to more of a 50/50 spread is really interesting considering roamers are still the best class to have on flank. It's also very interesting to see how teams manage their heals now, as scouts are generally still the best to get pocketed during these drawn out fights.

Midfights are one of the biggest changes now. Feels like 2009-2010~ era midfights, although mids were headed that way before this nerf regardless. Demos are now commonly putting up carpets or traps and sitting on them unless they're running the targe, in which case they can get pretty creative with how they want to approach midfights (use the shield tanking ability to charge in, or play the spam game with the damage reduction?)

I think lots of demos will probably shift to targe/SR depending on their playstyles. This is the biggest change to a comp class since gunboats were unbanned and completely changed roamer's playstyles, and I expect this change to do the same to demo. Lots of soldiers quit over gunboats, and the same will happen for the new demo class. Attempting a reactionary "promod" (or tftrue cvar) is the fastest way to kill the game, and I hope that no league actively implements it.

Oh, did people think I was defending pubs or the update at all? That'd explain the -frags. No, that wasn't the point.

i actually think it promotes more teamwork than before. With it being easier to go through chokes, and pockets sitting at 300 hp, that puts a lot more focus on everyone on your team shooting the same people and comming effectively.

you can be salty cause the easiest class in the game got a little less easy but its a good change imo

Medic got nerfed too? :^)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-APZJhrTOFEY/TwZgJeIBUAI/AAAAAAAACm0/URQzg4E2wdM/s400/stages-of-grief.jpg

Im glad etf2l put a stop to it.

Your text to link here...

At this point ive already accepted it and im eager to tryout the targe strats and gameplay.

Just to be clear, what is the status of the new items in ESEA? CEVO?

Am I supposed to find the good part in this? Because nothing in this seems good to me...

Whether you like it or not the tf2 metagame at the moment is much more polished and interesting to watch than it was in 2009 and honestly these long midfights, and demo playstyle doesn't really bring me any joy.

I really can't see any way this nerf can benefit the actual 6v6 and HL metagame. All the things I have looked at so far indicate it will only indirectly make the game more drawn out, slow paced and boring, with possibly bringing heavy back into the meta. Please kill me now if people think that's the way to go.

any one else think were gonna see a lot more offclassing now? i think a good sniper can do about as much as a targe demo.

nah

we'll see snipers to mid if the parachute gets in thats for sure