Too easy to spam out. With payload it works because you can inch the cart closer. But with a CP, it would be too hard to cap IMO.

cp_badwater_a4

screenshots in main post
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iszwwo36zeciaov/cp_badwater_a4.rar

* Fixed a bunch of issues, mainly a game breaking sightline from B to A.
* Added a one-way door to the wall.
* Skybox works, spire is optimized.
* A bunch of other stuff, that I'm forgetting.

a3 was broken pretty badly, and I decided to just scrap it.

Have fun, please provide feedback if you play this map in pugs/ pubs or whatever.

Defy will love you forever

Can some well known players run this map? Like stabby's server or star's server or something?

If people'd like to, it'd be great. It's whatever, though. Thanks for the interest.

Who, I can't believe I missed this when you first posted it. I'm looking at it now but right away I see two things:

Couldn't get HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c96_864_-80.hdr' -- Trying non HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c96_864_-80'
Failed, using default cubemap 'engine/defaultcubemap'
Couldn't get HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c3552_-1472_240.hdr' -- Trying non HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c3552_-1472_240'
Failed, using default cubemap 'engine/defaultcubemap'
Couldn't get HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c-2249_-864_400.hdr' -- Trying non HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c-2249_-864_400'
Failed, using default cubemap 'engine/defaultcubemap'
Couldn't get HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c478_118_248.hdr' -- Trying non HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c478_118_248'
Failed, using default cubemap 'engine/defaultcubemap'
Couldn't get HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c389_121_-128.hdr' -- Trying non HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c389_121_-128'
Failed, using default cubemap 'engine/defaultcubemap'
Couldn't get HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c3152_-1664_192.hdr' -- Trying non HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c3152_-1664_192'
Failed, using default cubemap 'engine/defaultcubemap'
Couldn't get HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c2944_-1200_192.hdr' -- Trying non HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c2944_-1200_192'
Failed, using default cubemap 'engine/defaultcubemap'
Couldn't get HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c3120_-768_192.hdr' -- Trying non HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c3120_-768_192'
Failed, using default cubemap 'engine/defaultcubemap'
Couldn't get HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c-1408_800_352.hdr' -- Trying non HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c-1408_800_352'
Failed, using default cubemap 'engine/defaultcubemap'
Couldn't get HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c-1856_2432_408.hdr' -- Trying non HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c-1856_2432_408'
Failed, using default cubemap 'engine/defaultcubemap'
Couldn't get HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c-880_832_272.hdr' -- Trying non HDR 'maps/cp_badwater_a4/c-880_832_272'
Failed, using default cubemap 'engine/defaultcubemap'

and

Requesting texture value from var "$bumpmap" which is not a texture value (material: maps/cp_badwater_a4_08/tile/floor_tile_001a_389_121_-128)
Requesting texture value from var "$bumpmap" which is not a texture value (material: maps/cp_badwater_a4_08/tile/floor_tile_001a_389_121_-128

So, some good changes:

* Fixed a bunch of issues, mainly a game breaking sightline from B to A.
-Not sure what this was but game breaking things are bad
* Added a one-way door to the wall.
-This is good, running up to second was dumb.
* Skybox works, spire is optimized.
-Skybox looks good, spire looks good
-Spire is a bit high though, it gives the defending team an extreme advantage as they can easily spam two of the doors to enter and someone can sit on the vents on roof to spam the other door.
-There is one way to get on spire from ground, which involves jumping on props. This is dumb.
* A bunch of other stuff, that I'm forgetting.

Stuff that has been previously mentioned here is still not fixed. You can jump everywhere, there is still the lamp of the hut, and you never added back the ammo and hp there.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/559863671685915064/3440550F840DA81E44CB5015AE5C2D24BE2F4281/

The scope of the sniper rifle looks like this too.

If you see where the sniper wall is before capping B, a red sniper could stand there and deny everything from entering, with no effective counters.

Sorry about the simple stuff not getting fixed. I fixed a bunch of things in a3, but accidentally broke some stuff too, so I reverted back to a2 and made a4 off that. I forgot a bunch of the easy stuff, and that will be fixed soon for a5, and hopefully b1.

I still need to get all the clipping issues fixed. I just found a really effective way of doing that, and it should be fixed 100% by a5. Sorry about that.

Sorry that I sounded so harsh. You have made some nice changes and switching versions does explain the little things.

a5 is out!

https://mega.co.nz/#!18FjhQga!TJ8gFzrD7ba649btSvea56JBJseoaw58c276BD7oOqM

I essentially scrapped a4 and started fresh with this. This fixed a lot of broken things, and made the map much more similar to pl_badwater. I'll make changes as needed, but the goal is to keep the maps as similar as possible.

Album: http://imgur.com/a/iMiof

Please post feedback on this thread. I'd love to make this map as good as it can be. Thanks!

Nice changes to Badwater! Are there any pubs, by any chance, running this?

As far as feedback goes, I think for visual purposes, having the cart still in the map and moving on its own just for the sake of it would be a little neat.

I'll go ahead and put it on my server, I guess. There's no fast download though.

connect 162.248.92.96:27015

That could be neat. BLU would have to destroy barriers by capping the points. The cart moves at a set speed, and if it gets to a barrier, BLU loses. I may or may not incorporate this, it'd be neat.

The C point location is a little awkward... maybe move those concrete tubes near / below / behind it and put the point in that corner?

looks fun!

Neat, this is going up on my server. FastDL and all, can nominate it.

173.208.211.208:27015

OK so i jumped around a little and found this "spot" i guess http://imgur.com/a/W6axP
if you jump inside it you get stuck in there

forcing fast gameplay isn't necessarily a bad thing, but i'm not sure implementing it this way would work. sounds good on paper, though.

Testing right now! See above

Yeah I saw that right after I posted bur then I had to leave. I'll make a hot fix when I get home.

C is already really hard to cap in the payload version without having to run your team into an easily defended staircase, or have your jumpers drop onto an easily spammed balcony.

I hope it works out, and I agree that you should change as little as possible from the original, but C just looks impossible.

Also, why cp? If you want faster gameplay just speed up the cart?

cart speed is slow to prevent collision bugs from getting out of hand. would have to rescale the map to make payload faster.

primary reason for CPs over PL seems to be making it more 6s friendly instead of just better for highlander. Not like it'll get league play (since it's linear A/D CP), but pugs and stuff.

I thought the problem with payload in 6s was that the cart was too slow...

the problem with payload in 6s is that in 6s it's about fighting over space in order to take control of the objective. but with payload you need to dedicate a whole player or two to the objective while simultaneously using the others to take control of the space.

the cart artificially limits momentum by requiring constant interaction and limits you from taking advantage of whatever momentum you get by being slow. it's the actual effect on momentum as a whole that's the problem, not the speed or interaction itself.

even if you make the cart 5x faster you'll have the interaction problem, even if you make it automatic or remotely controlled you'll have the speed problem, and if you do both then there's no point in the objective object anymore.

Not true. You use your team to take the space, then have your team push the cart. This idea that you need to have 2 scouts on the cart constantly while everyone else plays the game is false. Its an exaggeration of the tactic highlander teams use in payload.

Think of payload compared to a capture point. In both modes you have to take an area from the defending team, then hold on to the area for a certain amount of time to capture it. It is the same thing with payload: most pl maps are split into arenas around checkpoints (similar to a\d maps), where the attacking team has to take the area, then hold it (by pushing the cart) until it is captured.

I thought the x3 speed limit was the problem, as it stemmed momentum, which 6s players dislike. However the nature of capturing an area will always slow down momentum. I mean, look at 5cp, even if you teamwipe the attackers at last, you're still slowed down heavily by needing to cap every point along the way to actually make ground. I don't see how this has become a strictly payload issue.