who can hate the ice climbers? youre a monster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSkCGa_J5wY

wobbling is really hard to do, just bceause a game has an infinite doesnt make that character broken
see: el fuerte, ex iori

ice climbers were never fun to play against in any type of tournament setting

also they took out chain grabs in SSB4
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/sep/10/video-no-chain-grabs-mechanic-super-smash-bros-3ds-tested-new-japanese-e-shop-demo/

You're playing brawl I don't feel bad for you

you can do it in melee as well

Wobbling in melee is way different than infinite grabbing in brawl, and pretty obviously not overpowered or unfair or we'd be seeing a lot more top level ICs. Besides there's more to the game than how it makes you feel fighting them in a tourny setting. ICs were awesome and unique and it's sad to see them go

You don't see it a lot because it's banned in a lot of major tourneys. And it is pretty overpowered when you can literally do nothing to get out of the grab. Still disappointed that icies didn't make it to smash 4. I liked them.

The only major it's banned in is Big House and Big House gets crap for it. You don't see it a lot because it's not as good as you think it is. Just don't get grabbed.

telling people not to get grabbed in smash is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard

As dumb as don't get hit?

just about

well then you'd better take it up with the entire competitive community, cuz both those things seem to work for them

i think itd be cool if you could tech grabs, but itd be hard to make that work

You know thats bullshit so i dont even know why you're saying that. The entire smash community doesn't think wobbling is ok and if you really think getting a 0 to death combo off a grab is ok then you're actually stupid. Lets also not forget that its easy as shit to get grabs in smash to begin with

Climbers aren't fun to play against. I don't care about top level balance.

I guess you're right, not the entire community, just the ones that matter. If fighting games were a democracy they'd all be shit. I used to be a nationally ranked player in a fighting game and I'm pretty familiar with the arguments less skilled players make to justify their complaints. The proof is in the pudding, as it usually is. There are only a handful of high level IC players, and none of them have ever made it to the top. If wobbling were the game breaking mechanic you're making it out to be then ICs would be everywhere. But it's not and they're not.

Wobbling is cheesy, and like all cheesy strategies they're very effective on less skilled players and extremely limited on skilled ones. Melee's "deal with it" meta is what's responsible for making it such a high quality game.

To be fair Fuerte doesn't have an infinite and the SF4 scaling makes it do piss damage after about 5~7 reps
It's not insanely hard to do but it's not a touch of death thing that happens often

so i think the irony in this page of posts is that this is exactly the same kind of debacle that Comp TF2 players have with Pub TF2 players

its pretty hard to do man, its like 1 frame links, poongko practices it all the time on his stream and its rare for him to get more than 3 reps of it
but youre right, touch of death doesnt really happen in SF because of damage scaling and juggle potential

I'm only upset to see Lucas gone, but I'll accept it for Duck Hunt Dog, Bowser Jr., and no ICs. Idc if wobbling is "hard" or not or their infinite chain grab from brawl but ICs have always been obnoxious and very not fun to play against.

by the way I wanna clarify that I'm not supporting wobbling. It's dumb and cheesy and I'd rather it didn't exist. I'm saying that it's obviously not overpowered, and shouldn't overshadow the rest of the character which is extremely unique and interesting. I never play ICs anyways, but it's awesome that a character like them can exist. They can do awesome stuff like this: http://gfycat.com/ScornfulRingedHumpbackwhale

the mechanics of ICs are interesting, but how often do people actually do chain grab combos like the one in the gif? in most tournaments you just see typical wobbling / plain back and forth chain grabs. and with regard to the, "don't get grabbed".. it's dumb. if you don't want to get grabbed, it forces you to play on platforms more than you usually would, slowing down the pace of the game.

edit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWu3Gi8UE8k

even in the beginning, you can clearly see m2k is trying to avoid being grabbed by avoiding the ground completely, going back to the platform as a safe jump reset, but at 1:20, he gets grabbed. what are you going to tell him? don't get grabbed? smash is a game where you play off peoples mistakes and capitalize on them. MAJORITY of the time, it's impossible to be perfect, otherwise you'd see jv 4/5 stocks a lot.

If you're actually watching the tournaments you'll see that kind of play almost exclusively. Fly Amanita, ChuDat, and Wobbles (the namesake, though he never relied on them and quit using it altogether) were the big IC players and they were always exciting to watch. Wobbling might win Nintendude a S@X weekly but I doubt we'll ever see him placing at majors.

Brawl.

I was using a brawl video as a reference to using platforms and height to your advantage against a ice climbers user.

even in melee, you see players using platforms and height to their advantage against ice climbers. even in melee you see people trying to avoid being grabbed. even in melee people make mistakes and end up being grabbed.

if your counter arguement is really just because it's brawl, you're dumb, and definitely deserving of the neg frags you're getting, because nobody agrees with you.

Oh no minus frags my life is over!

Downpours analogy is getting real appropriate. Here is a list of things that anyone who's actually informed should know:

-There are few high level ICs
-There are no high level ICs who rely on wobbling
-Wobbling is not banned in tournaments, except for Big House (and it's practically a running joke)
-Wobbling is different than Brawls infinite grab
-Brawl is drastically different than melee and irrelevant as a competitive game

Brawl forces a player to play on platforms because the mechanics of the game prevent the same level of spacing that melee allows for on the ground.

And I happily reiterate that fighting games are not a democracy. I don't need people to agree with me to be right. If you value the majority so much then the shortstop is OP, Sniper should be removed from the game, Pyro is a great class, and 6s is filled with a bunch of angry nerds who ban everything and refuse to play 'the actual game.'

Any nintendo plat members here? Nintendo are sending out 4 demo codes to club nintendo plat members.