The rock change is too good for snipers because it gives them a full sight line thus they have a full view of the enemy main.

We are talking about the same fence, sorry I don't agree with your opinion.

This might be me being bad but I have never used that fence as medic.

If you lower the fence behind the rock then it'll be harder to snipe the heavy and wont really hurt the sniper either as he only looks in one direction at a time anyway. If anything you might just buff it as a sniper spot as counter sniping will be harder (since he won't be visible from as many angles). I don't think it needs a nerf in the first place, it's good as is.

this is pretty close to the case atm, lowering or removing part of the fence will most likely just make it even stronger. I'd like to hear an actual argument for why it should stay.

probably

can you please explain how this fence has absolutely any impact on a 'scout or soldier rushing'?
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=430226464
It literally just adds an extra foot of size/collision to the rock and doesn't help someone dodging whatsoever.

Holding on point left side a solider or scout rushes you, and you can use the fence either as cover or something you can jump on to avoid splash/surf or whatever.

the rock is a very irregular prop where u sometimes will be caught sliding while the fence works as kinda of a step very useful for soldiers. And even more so for scouts which can toy around it a lot and avoid splash damage. Overall I think it's fine the way it is. Sure it's a bit abused in HL but I dont see how you could change it without impacting some of 6s core classes that make good use of it.

The rock provides the exact same cover that the fence does...
Your other argument that its something to jump on to avoid splash damage is pretty weak considering how much easier it is to just splash the medic by hitting the rock right next to the fence than it is to hit the medic on the hill/ramp behind it.

That's the first logical counter-argument, but is not a game changing feature for scouts/soldiers compared to how it helps snipers. The spot is used in 6s as well but you don't see it abused as often because most teams don't run a sniper enough to realize it's strength.

The fence doesn't provide any extra cover in terms of sniper sightlines, so I don't see any reason to remove it.

My argument is as invalid as yours then, taking down a sniper behind rock is not harder than taking him down from anywhere else on the map, maybe it's your fault that you can't take him down and not the map's.

That's not the argument giraffe was making. The problem with sniper behind the rock is that he can easily see the entire map just by walking back and forth a small distance along the fence. He is also unable to be easily countersniped as he can just walk to the left or right with the rock to block the other side, whereas the other sniper has to rotate across the entire map to get a good shot on him.

Also just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean you get personal shitlord.

I definitely agree that the fence is useful to snipers more than other classes, and should perhaps be tweaked, but I feel like it is also a soldier spot that I find myself using extremely often and I would be sad if the fence was to be entirely removed. Nonetheless, there are other spots that are just as good for soldier if not better, while this is IMO one of the best sniper spots, so it wouldn't be the end of the world if it was to be removed entirely.

in high plat on viaduct, most teams just play around their sniper like a combo and they feed the sniper a significant amount of heals. constantly buffed to 185, being protected by a heavy sitting on cliff, pyro spychecking around the combo, and having the rest of the team there too is kinda hard for any class to kill a sniper sitting on that fence. Since most snipers wear the razorback too, it's rather difficult, even for a spy to take down a sniper being protected + tanked with heals.

This. The only way to kill him is have him counter sniped since anytime you try to walk close to him, you're immediately stared down since he can see both major sight lines almost immediately.

It doesn't matter how the fence is changed; whether it's removed, shortened, moved, or whatever. As long as the end result is snipers can't rotate left and right super quickly while using the rock for cover at the same time, we're golden here.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5181650/koth_viaduct_pro60006.jpg

probably what we'll go with

This is basically what I wanted, removed the far right panel so that snipers can't watch between china/cliff

or

remove the far left panel so snipers can't see Main/Concrete

doing both / shortening it would likely fuck up a lot with how scouts/soldiers use rock, removing 1 of the panels also should make playing sniper more interesting cause in order to watch needed angles snipers would have to rotate more. Which snipers having to rotate gives more opportunities to push and/or pick the sniper.