2cand frankly if someone makes a good enouhg dota mario kart and it costs a dollar ill go sell some crates and manage i think
skyrim players have massive down's
Yes, because you'd totally pay $100 for some horse genitals, too. Wow, such downs.
Nobody would have a problem with paying $1 for well-polished, genuine content. There are a few mods on the Workshop right now that actually DESERVE their asking prices. Arissa deserved the $3 minimum price, and even the $5 suggested (though all of Chesko's mods have been removed). iNeed for $1 minimum sounds fantastic. Midas Magic, which adds a fuckload of new spells that aren't just reskins, sure as hell deserves the $3 minimum and even maybe the $6 suggested.
People are mostly butthurt about shitty mods charging more than they should, as well as the 25% modder cut. Very few people are upset that any mod in the world might cost money, and those that are are entitled pricks. Don't associate the vast majority with the vocal minority.
[quote=2c]and frankly if someone makes a good enouhg dota mario kart and it costs a dollar ill go sell some crates and manage i think
skyrim players have massive down's[/quote]
Yes, because you'd totally pay $100 for some horse genitals, too. Wow, such downs.
Nobody would have a problem with paying $1 for well-polished, genuine content. There are a few mods on the Workshop right now that actually DESERVE their asking prices. Arissa deserved the $3 minimum price, and even the $5 suggested (though all of Chesko's mods have been removed). iNeed for $1 minimum sounds fantastic. Midas Magic, which adds a fuckload of new spells that aren't just reskins, sure as hell deserves the $3 minimum and even maybe the $6 suggested.
People are mostly butthurt about shitty mods charging more than they should, as well as the 25% modder cut. Very few people are upset that any mod in the world might cost money, and those that are are entitled pricks. Don't associate the vast majority with the vocal minority.
good thing theres a rating system so the userbase could ensure the greatest value mods are represented as such
jk everyone voted one star on everything so they removed it
anyways, garrys mod dudes spot on. read first paragraph and already know it coincides with my understanding of these things. aside from that markets take awhile to stabilize. benefits for users come long term
good thing theres a rating system so the userbase could ensure the greatest value mods are represented as such
jk everyone voted one star on everything so they removed it
anyways, garrys mod dudes spot on. read first paragraph and already know it coincides with my understanding of these things. aside from that markets take awhile to stabilize. benefits for users come long term
eee2c
its the exact same thing as paid cosmetics. unimaginitive retards will whine doom and gloom while content creators will make the big bucks now that they finally have a platform to release on
its p different from paid cosmetics since putting up a paywall for actual game content on a game u other wise own is still pretty new.
what in gods name
There's also the fact that there's still literally no copy protection or way to authenticate the TES engine's plugins, so u can pirate these things pathetically easy. its dumb
even better: the mods that you deem not worth their value but still 'necessary' (im not sure how this combination exists), you can just go acquire for free. others wont know how to, or will disagree with your opinions on its value and pay up front. this is the exact reason why piracy in music and movie industries benefits the business overall: people that arent going to buy a product can freeload on something they never intended to buy and the capability of doing so generates positive value because popularity attracts others who will pay that otherwise wouldn't found the product in the first place.
[quote=eee][quote=2c]
its the exact same thing as paid cosmetics. unimaginitive retards will whine doom and gloom while content creators will make the big bucks now that they finally have a platform to release on
[/quote]
its p different from paid cosmetics since putting up a paywall for actual game content on a game u other wise own is still pretty new. [/quote]
what in gods name
[quote]
There's also the fact that there's still literally no copy protection or way to authenticate the TES engine's plugins, so u can pirate these things pathetically easy. its dumb
[/quote]
even better: the mods that you deem not worth their value but still 'necessary' (im not sure how this combination exists), you can just go acquire for free. others wont know how to, or will disagree with your opinions on its value and pay up front. this is the exact reason why piracy in music and movie industries benefits the business overall: people that arent going to buy a product can freeload on something they never intended to buy and the capability of doing so generates positive value because popularity attracts others who will pay that otherwise wouldn't found the product in the first place.
"what in gods name"
do u not understand how ppl are going to be mad that a bunch of formerly free content is going to be locked behind a paywall?
it'd be kind of different if skyrim was f2p but its a retail gme with shitloads of functionality now locked behind microtransactions, and that's not good at all. Looking forward, there's very little incentive for any mod worth making being free, and there's really no reason to buy bethesda games if ur not going to mod them (because they've all been shit since morrowind)
"what in gods name"
do u not understand how ppl are going to be mad that a bunch of formerly free content is going to be locked behind a paywall?
it'd be kind of different if skyrim was f2p but its a retail gme with shitloads of functionality now locked behind microtransactions, and that's not good at all. Looking forward, there's very little incentive for any mod worth making being free, and there's really no reason to buy bethesda games if ur not going to mod them (because they've all been shit since morrowind)
eeedo u not understand how ppl are going to be mad that a bunch of formerly free content is going to be locked behind a paywall?
It's mostly this for me, honestly. For Star Wars Battlefront 2 there's a lot of user-generated content to add some more stuff to the game that gameplay-wise is pretty radical but kinda looks like ass in some cases (for instance the entire KoTOR war mod). For all intents and purposes it adds somewhere in the ballpark of another gigabyte of content considering all of the map ports as well as the units added. Not to mention that a group released an unofficial network patch years ago to prepare for the inevitable server death that did end up coming around when Gamespy kicked the bucket.
Most of the people who made these mods have long since vanished from the video game scene despite their contributions.
Now imagine all of that behind a paywall.
What we're going to see is an extreme knee-jerk reaction rise in piracy in one form or another, be it sharing mods through filesharing sites and programs like Retroshare or people grabbing paid mods, making minute changes to them, and putting them up as free mods (the reverse of people taking once free mods made by other people and making them paid).
This whole "paid mods" thing has been nothing but a disaster and could have been completely circumvented if Valve turned it into a donate button and then offered modders some sort of content-creation assistance plan that Valve would get a cut from (example: modder puts some work into creating something actually feasible like the SWBF2 patches, they put in an application for Valve to help with cleanup and refinement, and then Valve would get a cut of each donation (5% or something). That way, a modder could either put in work themselves and earn full donations or request help from Valve and use whatever donation percentage as an exchange of services. This idea has a lot of holes but I'll be damned if it isn't already better than having black and white "paid mods" and "free mods".
[quote=eee]do u not understand how ppl are going to be mad that a bunch of formerly free content is going to be locked behind a paywall?[/quote]
It's mostly this for me, honestly. For Star Wars Battlefront 2 there's a [i]lot[/i] of user-generated content to add some more stuff to the game that gameplay-wise is pretty radical but kinda looks like ass in some cases (for instance the entire KoTOR war mod). For all intents and purposes it adds somewhere in the ballpark of another gigabyte of content considering all of the map ports as well as the units added. Not to mention that a group released an unofficial network patch years ago to prepare for the inevitable server death that did end up coming around when Gamespy kicked the bucket.
Most of the people who made these mods have long since vanished from the video game scene despite their contributions.
Now imagine all of that behind a paywall.
What we're going to see is an extreme knee-jerk reaction rise in piracy in one form or another, be it sharing mods through filesharing sites and programs like Retroshare or people grabbing paid mods, making minute changes to them, and putting them up as free mods (the reverse of people taking once free mods made by other people and making them paid).
This whole "paid mods" thing has been nothing but a disaster and could have been completely circumvented if Valve turned it into a donate button and then offered modders some sort of content-creation assistance plan that Valve would get a cut from (example: modder puts some work into creating something actually feasible like the SWBF2 patches, they put in an application for Valve to help with cleanup and refinement, and then Valve would get a cut of each donation (5% or something). That way, a modder could either put in work themselves and earn full donations or request help from Valve and use whatever donation percentage as an exchange of services. This idea has a lot of holes but I'll be damned if it isn't already better than having black and white "paid mods" and "free mods".
eee"what in gods name"
do u not understand how ppl are going to be mad that a bunch of formerly free content is going to be locked behind a paywall?
the joke was you described exactly what DLC is which has existed for years
not my issue if you feel entitled to content youve spent 0 dollars on. nothings going to convince retards stuff they dont want to hear so you'll just have to see it for yourself in a year or so how disastrous this decision is
[quote=eee]"what in gods name"
do u not understand how ppl are going to be mad that a bunch of formerly free content is going to be locked behind a paywall? [/quote]
the joke was you described exactly what DLC is which has existed for years
not my issue if you feel entitled to content youve spent 0 dollars on. nothings going to convince retards stuff they dont want to hear so you'll just have to see it for yourself in a year or so how disastrous this decision is
[img]http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/954/833/b6e.jpg[/img]
2ceee"what in gods name"
do u not understand how ppl are going to be mad that a bunch of formerly free content is going to be locked behind a paywall?
the joke was you described exactly what DLC is which has existed for years
not my issue if you feel entitled to content youve spent 0 dollars on. nothings going to convince retards stuff they dont want to hear so you'll just have to see it for yourself in a year or so how disastrous this decision is
the critical difference being DLC is made by the developer and mods are made by the community
u cant call ppl retarded for disagreeing w/ u. esp when ur entire argument is that if u dont like smthn ur retarded :( it isnt like valve/beth want mods to be free, the end game here is every mod that can be monetized will be monetized, and nickle and diming a $60 game is so fucking stupid plsplsplsplsplsplspls dont support making every single mod in the world $1 or whatever there's so many better ways to do this
[quote=2c][quote=eee]"what in gods name"
do u not understand how ppl are going to be mad that a bunch of formerly free content is going to be locked behind a paywall? [/quote]
the joke was you described exactly what DLC is which has existed for years
not my issue if you feel entitled to content youve spent 0 dollars on. nothings going to convince retards stuff they dont want to hear so you'll just have to see it for yourself in a year or so how disastrous this decision is[/quote]
the critical difference being DLC is made by the developer and mods are made by the community
u cant call ppl retarded for disagreeing w/ u. esp when ur entire argument is that if u dont like smthn ur retarded :( it isnt like valve/beth want mods to be free, the end game here is every mod that can be monetized will be monetized, and nickle and diming a $60 game is so fucking stupid plsplsplsplsplsplspls dont support making every single mod in the world $1 or whatever there's so many better ways to do this
It doesn't make sense. First of all, there will be cracked versions. Trust me, just check thepirate.se within a few weeks and we'll see tons of them, some perhaps having viruses that present risks to those buying them. It happens with every other game/mod out there, and with mods selling for as much as $50 it'll be even more lucrative to download illegally. I think anyone would rather get a mod for free and then actually play on it before paying for it. If I thought that the mod was good, I'd consider donating to a patreon or something that gives cool benefits like seeing how the mod is made and stuff like that. It works perfectly for tf2. I'm going to guess there's only a half dozen users on this site that haven't dropped at least five or ten bucks on a hat or strange. And that's how they give back to the developers. However, it's better for modders than it is for the tf2 devs (in this example) because the modders get DIRECTLY supported through donations.
Valve has a lot of problems. Their customer support is abysmal, and they need to focus on that, besides a modding community that didn't need to be revamped
It doesn't make sense. First of all, there will be cracked versions. Trust me, just check thepirate.se within a few weeks and we'll see tons of them, some perhaps having viruses that present risks to those buying them. It happens with every other game/mod out there, and with mods selling for as much as $50 it'll be even more lucrative to download illegally. I think anyone would rather get a mod for free and then actually play on it before paying for it. If I thought that the mod was good, I'd consider donating to a patreon or something that gives cool benefits like seeing how the mod is made and stuff like that. It works perfectly for tf2. I'm going to guess there's only a half dozen users on this site that haven't dropped at least five or ten bucks on a hat or strange. And that's how they give back to the developers. However, it's better for modders than it is for the tf2 devs (in this example) because the modders get DIRECTLY supported through donations.
Valve has a lot of problems. Their customer support is abysmal, and they need to focus on that, besides a modding community that didn't need to be revamped
eee2ceee"what in gods name"
do u not understand how ppl are going to be mad that a bunch of formerly free content is going to be locked behind a paywall?
the joke was you described exactly what DLC is which has existed for years
not my issue if you feel entitled to content youve spent 0 dollars on. nothings going to convince retards stuff they dont want to hear so you'll just have to see it for yourself in a year or so how disastrous this decision is
the critical difference being DLC is made by the developer and mods are made by the community
u cant call ppl retarded for disagreeing w/ u. esp when ur entire argument is that if u dont like smthn ur retarded :( it isnt like valve/beth want mods to be free, the end game here is every mod that can be monetized will be monetized, and nickle and diming a $60 game is so fucking stupid plsplsplsplsplsplspls dont support making every single mod in the world $1 or whatever there's so many better ways to do this
D O N A T I O N B O X
[quote=eee][quote=2c][quote=eee]"what in gods name"
do u not understand how ppl are going to be mad that a bunch of formerly free content is going to be locked behind a paywall? [/quote]
the joke was you described exactly what DLC is which has existed for years
not my issue if you feel entitled to content youve spent 0 dollars on. nothings going to convince retards stuff they dont want to hear so you'll just have to see it for yourself in a year or so how disastrous this decision is[/quote]
the critical difference being DLC is made by the developer and mods are made by the community
u cant call ppl retarded for disagreeing w/ u. esp when ur entire argument is that if u dont like smthn ur retarded :( it isnt like valve/beth want mods to be free, the end game here is every mod that can be monetized will be monetized, and nickle and diming a $60 game is so fucking stupid plsplsplsplsplsplspls dont support making every single mod in the world $1 or whatever there's so many better ways to do this[/quote] D O N A T I O N B O X
If I had spent $1 on every broken/misleading mod I've installed in the last 4 years I would have spent more money on mods than videogames.
If I had spent $1 on every broken/misleading mod I've installed in the last 4 years I would have spent more money on mods than videogames.
totalbiscuit's video about this is pretty good and changed my opinion.
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGKOiQGeO-k]totalbiscuit's video[/url] about this is pretty good and changed my opinion.
2ckirbyA lot of his posts are leaving me in a weird spot. On one hand, I understand a lot of what he's saying, but at the same time I don't see why any of this is necessary.
its the exact same thing as paid cosmetics. unimaginitive retards will whine doom and gloom while content creators will make the big bucks now that they finally have a platform to release on
he's not going to post "well look you retard, we gave people the chance to make cartoon hats and now a lot of them make 200k a year so i think this strategy may be more viable than putting a donation button when catering to a market that that still has >50% adblock on despite constant appeals from ~the sites they love~".
it should all be common sense that this is direction steam has headed for the past 3 years or so. you're basically looking at a preview of dota's custom map system
This is literally the farthest thing from paid cosmetics its unbelievable you can act so condescendingly on this thread without even having a shred of understanding of what this is.
These are not supported by the official developer, unlike Valve and cosmetics. This isnt content that is official, you are paying for unofficial content that is literally just being hosted by Valve, not certified or quality proofed.
If the mod gets broken by a patch by the actual developer, and you are out of the 24 hour refund period you lose your money. There is no consumer recourse. There is no developer support, many mods contain copyrighted content since they are not developed professionally and have no sort of legal agreements for fair use.
Comparing paid mods to cosmetics is actually one of the dumbest things I have ever read and it would be excusable if you weren't such an ass while being so ignorant.
[quote=2c][quote=kirby]A lot of his posts are leaving me in a weird spot. On one hand, I understand a lot of what he's saying, but at the same time I don't see why any of this is necessary.[/quote]
its the exact same thing as paid cosmetics. unimaginitive retards will whine doom and gloom while content creators will make the big bucks now that they finally have a platform to release on
he's not going to post "well look you retard, we gave people the chance to make cartoon hats and now a lot of them make 200k a year so i think this strategy may be more viable than putting a donation button when catering to a market that that still has >50% adblock on despite constant appeals from ~the sites they love~".
it should all be common sense that this is direction steam has headed for the past 3 years or so. you're basically looking at a preview of dota's custom map system[/quote]
This is literally the farthest thing from paid cosmetics its unbelievable you can act so condescendingly on this thread without even having a shred of understanding of what this is.
These are not supported by the official developer, unlike Valve and cosmetics. This isnt content that is official, you are paying for unofficial content that is literally just being hosted by Valve, not certified or quality proofed.
If the mod gets broken by a patch by the actual developer, and you are out of the 24 hour refund period you [b]lose[/b] your money. There is no consumer recourse. There is no developer support, many mods contain copyrighted content since they are not developed professionally and have no sort of legal agreements for fair use.
Comparing paid mods to cosmetics is actually one of the dumbest things I have ever read and it would be excusable if you weren't such an ass while being so ignorant.
Someone got their hands on the paid mods from the workshop and did a quality test run through. They found that with the exception of one of the armor mods (Gifts of Akatosh), they were all pretty shit quality. Bad clipping with models, only a male version and no female version, completely OP and gamebreaking stats, not even implemented in the game properly (either have to get it through cheats, or else it's placed in some dumb spot in the world where you don't even have to find it, i.e. leaning against the wall in the starter town). The location mod included boring cut and paste textures (they used the dirt texture for the ground as the ceiling texture too), absolutely no voice acting for any of the people in the town (barely any vanilla lines even added, you basically can't interact with any of the people), and just overall shitty quality. Not to mention some of these mods add clipping and bugged textures to vanilla stuff in the game (somehow).
That's what the paid workshop represents right now. Shittily and hastily thrown together mods with pretty screenshots, designed to make a quick buck. Sure, this might change over time, but I'd expect a VAST majority of the paid mod market to be saturated with these shitty quick buck mods.
The other major problem I forsee in the long run, is when a new game like Fallout 4 or Elder Scrolls VI comes out. When the modders get ahold of the new modding tools, there has always been a period of exploration where they learn how to use it, tweak it, bend it, and get incredibly creative with it. Part of this exploration is sharing what they discover and learn with the rest of the modding community, and this always results in incredibly high quality and fantastic mods for the game that extend its life for years (see: Skyrim, Skyblivion, Skywind). But if mods are monetized, these modders aren't going to share what they discover with people because they want to have the exclusive mod that they can sell for the big bucks. This lack of sharing is going to result in overall lower mod quality, and less enjoyment for all of us nerd gamers.
Someone got their hands on the paid mods from the workshop and did a quality test run through. They found that with the exception of one of the armor mods (Gifts of Akatosh), they were all pretty shit quality. Bad clipping with models, only a male version and no female version, completely OP and gamebreaking stats, not even implemented in the game properly (either have to get it through cheats, or else it's placed in some dumb spot in the world where you don't even have to find it, i.e. leaning against the wall in the starter town). The location mod included boring cut and paste textures (they used the dirt texture for the ground as the ceiling texture too), absolutely no voice acting for any of the people in the town (barely any vanilla lines even added, you basically can't interact with any of the people), and just overall shitty quality. Not to mention some of these mods add clipping and bugged textures to vanilla stuff in the game (somehow).
That's what the paid workshop represents right now. Shittily and hastily thrown together mods with pretty screenshots, designed to make a quick buck. Sure, this might change over time, but I'd expect a VAST majority of the paid mod market to be saturated with these shitty quick buck mods.
The other major problem I forsee in the long run, is when a new game like Fallout 4 or Elder Scrolls VI comes out. When the modders get ahold of the new modding tools, there has always been a period of exploration where they learn how to use it, tweak it, bend it, and get incredibly creative with it. Part of this exploration is sharing what they discover and learn with the rest of the modding community, and this always results in incredibly high quality and fantastic mods for the game that extend its life for years (see: Skyrim, Skyblivion, Skywind). But if mods are monetized, these modders aren't going to share what they discover with people because they want to have the exclusive mod that they can sell for the big bucks. This lack of sharing is going to result in overall lower mod quality, and less enjoyment for all of us nerd gamers.
SuperfuzzSomeone got their hands on the paid mods from the workshop and did a quality test run through. They found that with the exception of one of the armor mods (Gifts of Akatosh), they were all pretty shit quality. Bad clipping with models, only a male version and no female version, completely OP and gamebreaking stats, not even implemented in the game properly (either have to get it through cheats, or else it's placed in some dumb spot in the world where you don't even have to find it, i.e. leaning against the wall in the starter town). The location mod included boring cut and paste textures (they used the dirt texture for the ground as the ceiling texture too), absolutely no voice acting for any of the people in the town (barely any vanilla lines even added, you basically can't interact with any of the people), and just overall shitty quality. Not to mention some of these mods add clipping and bugged textures to vanilla stuff in the game (somehow).
That's what the paid workshop represents right now. Shittily and hastily thrown together mods with pretty screenshots, designed to make a quick buck. Sure, this might change over time, but I'd expect a VAST majority of the paid mod market to be saturated with these shitty quick buck mods.
The other major problem I forsee in the long run, is when a new game like Fallout 4 or Elder Scrolls VI comes out. When the modders get ahold of the new modding tools, there has always been a period of exploration where they learn how to use it, tweak it, bend it, and get incredibly creative with it. Part of this exploration is sharing what they discover and learn with the rest of the modding community, and this always results in incredibly high quality and fantastic mods for the game that extend its life for years (see: Skyrim, Skyblivion, Skywind). But if mods are monetized, these modders aren't going to share what they discover with people because they want to have the exclusive mod that they can sell for the big bucks. This lack of sharing is going to result in overall lower mod quality, and less enjoyment for all of us nerd gamers.
I think you nailed it holy shit
[quote=Superfuzz]Someone got their hands on the paid mods from the workshop and did a quality test run through. They found that with the exception of one of the armor mods (Gifts of Akatosh), they were all pretty shit quality. Bad clipping with models, only a male version and no female version, completely OP and gamebreaking stats, not even implemented in the game properly (either have to get it through cheats, or else it's placed in some dumb spot in the world where you don't even have to find it, i.e. leaning against the wall in the starter town). The location mod included boring cut and paste textures (they used the dirt texture for the ground as the ceiling texture too), absolutely no voice acting for any of the people in the town (barely any vanilla lines even added, you basically can't interact with any of the people), and just overall shitty quality. Not to mention some of these mods add clipping and bugged textures to vanilla stuff in the game (somehow).
That's what the paid workshop represents right now. Shittily and hastily thrown together mods with pretty screenshots, designed to make a quick buck. Sure, this might change over time, but I'd expect a VAST majority of the paid mod market to be saturated with these shitty quick buck mods.
The other major problem I forsee in the long run, is when a new game like Fallout 4 or Elder Scrolls VI comes out. When the modders get ahold of the new modding tools, there has always been a period of exploration where they learn how to use it, tweak it, bend it, and get incredibly creative with it. Part of this exploration is sharing what they discover and learn with the rest of the modding community, and this always results in incredibly high quality and fantastic mods for the game that extend its life for years (see: Skyrim, Skyblivion, Skywind). But if mods are monetized, these modders aren't going to share what they discover with people because they want to have the exclusive mod that they can sell for the big bucks. This lack of sharing is going to result in overall lower mod quality, and less enjoyment for all of us nerd gamers.[/quote]
I think you nailed it holy shit
Looks like they're gone.
http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218