I always had in mind to make a mod to try to balance out most weapons/classes. I posted on reddit the ideas that I came up with, and there are also some responses in that thread. I would like the perspective of you guys on these ideas. And i'd love some feedback and changes that could be made.
https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/3hz5u8/balancedmod/
Have these in mind fo both pubs/HL/6s
I always had in mind to make a mod to try to balance out most weapons/classes. I posted on reddit the ideas that I came up with, and there are also some responses in that thread. I would like the perspective of you guys on these ideas. And i'd love some feedback and changes that could be made.
https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/3hz5u8/balancedmod/
Have these in mind fo both pubs/HL/6s
If you didn't already know, a project called TF2 tightrope already exists that kinda does this, but it seems recently they added a bunch of crap as well like their own weapons, so don't go down that route.
If you didn't already know, a project called TF2 tightrope already exists that kinda does this, but it seems recently they added a bunch of crap as well like their own weapons, so don't go down that route.
There was a similar thread to this
http://www.teamfortress.tv/22335/team-fortress-2-open-source
Personally, I agree with this
roksI can swear I read this a long time ago. Maybe even on this forum. Also there were big discussions about tf2 promod. Some group even went ahead and created their own version of tf2 with rebalanced classes and weapons, but they didn't get much popularity and support.
Eventually all of these ideas were met with a bit of skepticism and conclusion that all that would only create a bigger gap between the general tf2 and comp tf2 populations, which is crucial to avoid to maintain a growing comp community.
There would be casual players, comp players, and promod comp players, and casual and comp players are already separated as it is. I doubt any leagues - UGC, ESEA, etc. - would want to run with promod, especially with matchmaking being announced.
There was a similar thread to this
http://www.teamfortress.tv/22335/team-fortress-2-open-source
Personally, I agree with [url=http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/391015/team-fortress-2-open-source]this[/url]
[quote=roks]I can swear I read this a long time ago. Maybe even on this forum. Also there were big discussions about tf2 promod. Some group even went ahead and created their own version of tf2 with rebalanced classes and weapons, but they didn't get much popularity and support.
Eventually all of these ideas were met with a bit of skepticism and conclusion that all that would only create a bigger gap between the general tf2 and comp tf2 populations, which is crucial to avoid to maintain a growing comp community.[/quote]
There would be casual players, comp players, and promod comp players, and casual and comp players are already separated as it is. I doubt any leagues - UGC, ESEA, etc. - would want to run with promod, especially with matchmaking being announced.
Cool concept, though it pays to actually do the math with the numbers you post. For example, changing the wrap assassin cooldown from 15s to 45s is a +200% increase, not +150%. Additionally, this lets you see the full consequences of your suggestions; the suggested back scatter is capable of 1-shotting light classes even a few yards away.
The suggested candy cane might have the issue that the player you hit picks up the health kits, actually gaining health.
Liberty launcher seems fine; it's already capable of 2-shotting medics at decent range.
It's unclear if the updated mantreads still have the knockback effect.
Pyro runs faster than medic now; not sure if intended.
+50% pushback force on the backburner puts it at half of the previous force, not 84% of it.
Part of the reason that the phlog doesn't have airblast is that right clicking activates it.
You're removing the main point of the back scratcher: that it lets the pyro play on the flank when there are no medics. Might want to reconsider the change.
How do you plan on increasing the bleed damage on the SH as suggested? 5/hit?
Overdose becomes a little too good with suggested change, might need testing. Also goes against current game philosophy of only having changes apply with held/visible items. (See changes to bushwhacka, pocket pistol, etc.) Also note this for the amputator.
Sleeper needs a nerf, not a buff.
Suggested change to the danger shield is terrible; punishes quickscoping even harder (uncharged headshot does 120), while leaving charged up bodyshot->peek unaffected. A better change would be to simply increase critical damage taken, reversing the problem.
Cool concept, though it pays to actually do the math with the numbers you post. For example, changing the wrap assassin cooldown from 15s to 45s is a +200% increase, not +150%. Additionally, this lets you see the full consequences of your suggestions; the suggested back scatter is capable of 1-shotting light classes even a few yards away.
The suggested candy cane might have the issue that the player you hit picks up the health kits, actually gaining health.
Liberty launcher seems fine; it's already capable of 2-shotting medics at decent range.
It's unclear if the updated mantreads still have the knockback effect.
Pyro runs faster than medic now; not sure if intended.
+50% pushback force on the backburner puts it at half of the previous force, not 84% of it.
Part of the reason that the phlog doesn't have airblast is that right clicking activates it.
You're removing the main point of the back scratcher: that it lets the pyro play on the flank when there are no medics. Might want to reconsider the change.
How do you plan on increasing the bleed damage on the SH as suggested? 5/hit?
Overdose becomes a little too good with suggested change, might need testing. Also goes against current game philosophy of only having changes apply with held/visible items. (See changes to bushwhacka, pocket pistol, etc.) Also note this for the amputator.
Sleeper needs a nerf, not a buff.
Suggested change to the danger shield is terrible; punishes quickscoping even harder (uncharged headshot does 120), while leaving charged up bodyshot->peek unaffected. A better change would be to simply increase critical damage taken, reversing the problem.
FireStarwIf you didn't already know, a project called TF2 tightrope already exists that kinda does this, but it seems recently they added a bunch of crap as well like their own weapons, so don't go down that route.
Never planned to and most likelly never will add new weapons.
Jerm --snip--
I'll take a look onto that
Frost_BiteCool concept, though it pays to actually do the math with the numbers you post. For example, changing the wrap assassin cooldown from 15s to 45s is a +200% increase, not +150%.
Fixed that
Additionally, this lets you see the full consequences of your suggestions; the suggested back scatter is capable of 1-shotting light classes even a few yards away.
Isnt that possible right now too? It technically trades 10% damage and falloff for 6 shots. And a negative frontshot penalty
The suggested candy cane might have the issue that the player you hit picks up the health kits, actually gaining health.
The medkit would have to spawn being launched somewhere nearby
Liberty launcher seems fine; it's already capable of 2-shotting medics at decent range.
It's unclear if the updated mantreads still have the knockback effect.
Its not mentioned so they still do
Pyro runs faster than medic now; not sure if intended.
It is, Pyro is very weak without airblast, and since i find airblast to be a bit broken, i buffed pyro and nerfed airblast
+50% pushback force on the backburner puts it at half of the previous force, not 84% of it.
When i say -16% i mean that thats the difference between Stock and Backburner
Part of the reason that the phlog doesn't have airblast is that right clicking activates it.
Special attack would be used to activate MMPH, like suggested scottish resistance
You're removing the main point of the back scratcher: that it lets the pyro play on the flank when there are no medics. Might want to reconsider the change.
How about lowering from 75% from healers to 50% from original stats
How do you plan on increasing the bleed damage on the SH as suggested? 5/hit?
80 in 10 seconds so 8 per second , 4/hit
Overdose becomes a little too good with suggested change, might need testing. Also goes against current game philosophy of only having changes apply with held/visible items. (See changes to bushwhacka, pocket pistol, etc.)
Also note this for the amputator.
Guess that philosophy makes sense, maybe the gun could be seen somewhere in the medic model?
Otherwise I guess i'll change it to up to +15% speed but requires the gun out, and amputator from +3 to +5
Sleeper needs a nerf, not a buff.
How so? Lacking headshotting isnt hard enough?
Suggested change to the danger shield is terrible; punishes quickscoping even harder (uncharged headshot does 120), while leaving charged up bodyshot->peek unaffected. A better change would be to simply increase critical damage taken, reversing the problem.
Yet by that you lose the "immunity" to quick-scopes, which is the main point of the gun
[quote=FireStarw]If you didn't already know, a project called TF2 tightrope already exists that kinda does this, but it seems recently they added a bunch of crap as well like their own weapons, so don't go down that route.[/quote]
Never planned to and most likelly never will add new weapons.
[quote=Jerm] --snip--[/quote]
I'll take a look onto that
[quote=Frost_Bite]Cool concept, though it pays to actually do the math with the numbers you post. For example, changing the wrap assassin cooldown from 15s to 45s is a +200% increase, not +150%.
[b]Fixed that[/b]
Additionally, this lets you see the full consequences of your suggestions; the suggested back scatter is capable of 1-shotting light classes even a few yards away.
[b]Isnt that possible right now too? It technically trades 10% damage and falloff for 6 shots. And a negative frontshot penalty[/b]
The suggested candy cane might have the issue that the player you hit picks up the health kits, actually gaining health.
[b]The medkit would have to spawn being launched somewhere nearby[/b]
Liberty launcher seems fine; it's already capable of 2-shotting medics at decent range.
It's unclear if the updated mantreads still have the knockback effect.
[b]Its not mentioned so they still do[/b]
Pyro runs faster than medic now; not sure if intended.
[b]It is, Pyro is very weak without airblast, and since i find airblast to be a bit broken, i buffed pyro and nerfed airblast[/b]
+50% pushback force on the backburner puts it at half of the previous force, not 84% of it.
[b]When i say -16% i mean that thats the difference between Stock and Backburner[/b]
Part of the reason that the phlog doesn't have airblast is that right clicking activates it.
[b]Special attack would be used to activate MMPH, like suggested scottish resistance[/b]
You're removing the main point of the back scratcher: that it lets the pyro play on the flank when there are no medics. Might want to reconsider the change.
[b]How about lowering from 75% from healers to 50% from original stats[/b]
How do you plan on increasing the bleed damage on the SH as suggested? 5/hit?
[b]80 in 10 seconds so 8 per second , 4/hit [/b]
Overdose becomes a little too good with suggested change, might need testing. Also goes against current game philosophy of only having changes apply with held/visible items. (See changes to bushwhacka, pocket pistol, etc.)
Also note this for the amputator.
[b]Guess that philosophy makes sense, maybe the gun could be seen somewhere in the medic model?[/b]
[b]Otherwise I guess i'll change it to up to +15% speed but requires the gun out, and amputator from +3 to +5[/b]
Sleeper needs a nerf, not a buff.
[b]How so? Lacking headshotting isnt hard enough?[/b]
Suggested change to the danger shield is terrible; punishes quickscoping even harder (uncharged headshot does 120), while leaving charged up bodyshot->peek unaffected. A better change would be to simply increase critical damage taken, reversing the problem.
[b]Yet by that you lose the "immunity" to quick-scopes, which is the main point of the gun[/b]
[/quote]
PumLiberty launcher seems fine; it's already capable of 2-shotting medics at decent range.
Pyro runs faster than medic now; not sure if intended.
It is, Pyro is very weak without airblast, and since i find airblast to be a bit broken, i buffed pyro and nerfed airblast
You probably nerfed it a little too hard. There are other ways to fix airblast (the way it does targetting, having it not reset momentum, etc.) that make it a better fit for the game. It's probably bad for pubs as suggested.
+50% pushback force on the backburner puts it at half of the previous force, not 84% of it.
When i say -16% i mean that thats the difference between Stock and Backburner
It's still not clear what you mean. -16% relative to new stock? No, the backburner is buffed. -16 relative to old stock? Then it's +150%.
You're removing the main point of the back scratcher: that it lets the pyro play on the flank when there are no medics. Might want to reconsider the change.
How about lowering from 75% from healers to 50% from original stats
It's fine as is.
Overdose becomes a little too good with suggested change, might need testing. Also goes against current game philosophy of only having changes apply with held/visible items. (See changes to bushwhacka, pocket pistol, etc.)
Also note this for the amputator.
Guess that philosophy makes sense, maybe the gun could be seen somewhere in the medic model?
Otherwise I guess i'll change it to up to +15% speed but requires the gun out, and amputator from +3 to +5
Other than the shields and the sniper backpacks, every general item only has effects while it is held. Overdose is fine as-is.
Sleeper needs a nerf, not a buff.
How so? Lacking headshotting isnt hard enough?
If it's dumb enough to be banned in highlander for power level reasons, it's dumb enough to merit a nerf, not a buff.
Suggested change to the danger shield is terrible; punishes quickscoping even harder (uncharged headshot does 120), while leaving charged up bodyshot->peek unaffected. A better change would be to simply increase critical damage taken, reversing the problem.
Yet by that you lose the "immunity" to quick-scopes, which is the main point of the gun
It is universally agreed that the DDS is not well-designed in that regard; if you get headshot and are unbuffed, you should die. An unlock shouldn't stop that.
[quote=Pum]Liberty launcher seems fine; it's already capable of 2-shotting medics at decent range.
Pyro runs faster than medic now; not sure if intended.
[b]It is, Pyro is very weak without airblast, and since i find airblast to be a bit broken, i buffed pyro and nerfed airblast[/b]
[/quote]You probably nerfed it a little too hard. There are other ways to fix airblast (the way it does targetting, having it not reset momentum, etc.) that make it a better fit for the game. It's probably bad for pubs as suggested.
[quote]+50% pushback force on the backburner puts it at half of the previous force, not 84% of it.
[b]When i say -16% i mean that thats the difference between Stock and Backburner[/b][/quote]
It's still not clear what you mean. -16% relative to new stock? No, the backburner is buffed. -16 relative to old stock? Then it's +150%.
[quote]You're removing the main point of the back scratcher: that it lets the pyro play on the flank when there are no medics. Might want to reconsider the change.
[b]How about lowering from 75% from healers to 50% from original stats[/b][/quote] It's fine as is.
[quote]Overdose becomes a little too good with suggested change, might need testing. Also goes against current game philosophy of only having changes apply with held/visible items. (See changes to bushwhacka, pocket pistol, etc.)
Also note this for the amputator.
[b]Guess that philosophy makes sense, maybe the gun could be seen somewhere in the medic model?[/b]
[b]Otherwise I guess i'll change it to up to +15% speed but requires the gun out, and amputator from +3 to +5[/b][/quote]
Other than the shields and the sniper backpacks, every general item only has effects while it is held. Overdose is fine as-is.
[quote]Sleeper needs a nerf, not a buff.
[b]How so? Lacking headshotting isnt hard enough?[/b][/quote]
If it's dumb enough to be banned in highlander for power level reasons, it's dumb enough to merit a nerf, not a buff.
[quote]Suggested change to the danger shield is terrible; punishes quickscoping even harder (uncharged headshot does 120), while leaving charged up bodyshot->peek unaffected. A better change would be to simply increase critical damage taken, reversing the problem.
[b]Yet by that you lose the "immunity" to quick-scopes, which is the main point of the gun[/b]
[/quote]
It is universally agreed that the DDS is not well-designed in that regard; if you get headshot and are unbuffed, you should die. An unlock shouldn't stop that.