Two things immediately come to mind:

1. Trains - These things have no business being mobile, eliminate the moving ones outright.

2. Midfights - cp_well is the only map I can think off that uses a setup timer and locks off the mid building. Which is kind of redundant considering both soldiers and the demo can simply jump over the side fences and go after the other team's medic (can scouts with the winger and FAN get over it as well?). So mid might as well be redesigned to allow for immediate access.

why is everyone getting into mapping all of a sudden

probably bc there was a thread recently about remaking old maps that got quite a bit of traction

Part of the reason Well and Freight are so bad is because both of the entrances to second are shutter doors. I don't see how you'd go about fixing that. It'd require such a major facelift and change to the basic geometry that you'd be better off making a new map.

There's a lot about Well that's just 100% booty buttcheeks on all 3 points (mid, 2nd, last). Well is one of those maps I miss from pub rotations when there were legitimately populated community servers but if someone wanted to make a "pro" well, the map just wouldn't even be Well anymore, and even then probably not fun to play.

LKinche. Good ideas: However would you rather me make it so soldiers and demos cant rocket jump before it opens? Or do you want me to remove the door timers entirely like your initial thoughts

Deetr. Nah, I just have always wanted to make my own tf2 maps, only know have I got around to actually learning how to do so.

itszed what do you mean by "shutter doors" I can just remove those doors if you want? Or do you mean something different? Like I said I just got into mapping. Id like a little more detail

gr8stalin good points, yeah the train kills and stuff like that would kill some of the charm, It would be like removing the hazards from trainsawlazer I understand. I just love the layout so well (no pun intended) that I would like to see it as a serious map. I still would probably stick to the fun well we all know. However its a good shape, and I would love to see more serious and competitive play back on it.

If there's one fun map I miss playing but needs a make over, it's Follower. Man, besides the BS that was a fun map.

The only complaint about that map that I remember was the massive yard and flanks between mid and 2nd. I think that could easily be reworked/resized?

Yeah, the only actual issues with the map were the nearly impossible to count flanks from mid to the flank yard. Both yards themselves aren't actually big. It's the size of the transitions into the flank yard that was unnecessarily massive.

The health pack placement on 2nd are Garbage on well. Also it's way too much work to get to the upper entrance into last

OMG in attempt to decompile the valve well map. I deleted almost everything. Even the walls and floors, but the parts that remained turned out REALLY AWESOME. Forget cp_well_pro, and welcome cp_well_sky. Basically gonna be well, but make it floating with like a million places to fall into oblivion ;p

http://tf2maps.net/threads/valve-maps-decompiled.5952/

Well sorry if I used the wrong word. I actually got the file from that site. Except the cp_well from that site is the one with decompiling issues, some problems with occulsions. The things that disappeared where things I tried to delete to fix the problem. However the shell I was left with game me inspiration. Thanks for trying to help tho.

scouts can actually get over with stock loadout actually.

I think with well its the water flanks, the top section on 2nd, and the trains.
it was the most hated map when it was in 6s as far as I remember
I personally like the map but idk if it can be salvaged for comp

edit: actually

tbh freight is better for 6s at the moment than well is and I could see a few changes to freight that could be made to optimize it without losing the feel for freight.

Obvious examples include removing the trains, but maybe a lower skybox over mid or a sort of viaduct that product has above the point to stop insanely high soldier bombs (and I'm saying this as a roamer main). Also there are a few stupid places where you can put stickies that are literally invisible, and some shutter doors that can be shot through.

I don't know if I like this trend, people are trying to make the new version of Yukon/Coldfront/Well/Freight/Foundry that isn't shit, and while I don't think it comes from a bad place, they are seeing things the wrong way.
Pro maps are only successful if the base is workable, Viaduct and Granary where two stellar maps, even without their pro versions, but their pro versions made the maps just that much better. Trying to make a pro version of something like Well or Foundry would require so much more new brushwork and gameplay areas to be built/redone that it just isn't the same map anymore.

I tried to do this to Foundry. I reworked the second point completely, then people realised that last was a little dumb, so I started slowly reworking that into something people liked, then mid had too many sightlines ect ect.. Over the course of 13 versions the map slowly went from Foundry to something completely different, so far disconnected from the current Foundry that you couldn't recognize it unless I told you.

A good alternative to all of this jazz is to make a new map, something completely new from your mind that takes the stuff that you liked best from your favorite map and does them better. Process did this extremely well. The middle point has the same distinct gameplay as Granary, but over the course of a few versions evolved into something new. The same with the last point, it was originally just a clone of Well last, but he kept morphing the idea until he got one of the best and most popular competitive maps in the game. That's how you do a _pro version right.

Good point. However previously in my thread you might see that I found myself doing something else entirely, I am gonna remove most of the walls and floors, and make everything a death pit basically making it even more of a goofy map. I changed from cp_well_pro to cp_well_sky However I do agree with you.