How much is the game to survive just on the basis of it being one made by Blizzard?

It doesnt matter which one is worse lmao. Thats not the point.

Tf2 has random crits in the non-competitive game modes???

some (most) characters are so good/annoying that I have to constantly tryhard and pick counters or I have zero chance to have fun :(

My only real complaint is the same basic complaint that you get in tf2 pubs. While it's fun and effective to just run around and kill things, if you play alone you often wonder whether or not your team are bots. I don't know if it's because of the generally more pubby feel, or if the open beta just attracted people looking for a new game without looking into it at all. In addition it just seems like every hero might as well have a tutorial so people can at least learn them easily.

pretty fun if you just want that run and gun, first person shooter feel with some extra mechanics tacked on

but other than that the game is pretty dull

edit: the ability to wallhack and aimbot is pretty fuckin' dumb though

It's a good thing random crits are disabled in all competitive formats.

I'm sure wallhacks and aimbots are banned in Overwatch as well. Oh wait

i dont understand why people here are still complaining about 76's ult and saying shit like "this game gives you an aimbot what a joke!!!!!"

ults across the board are
a) more positioning than aim based
b) inactive for the majority of playtime
c) supposed to be very powerful
so i dont get why it matters that 76's ult just happens to be centered around an aim assist mechanic

to me it seems like dying to a 76 ult (or any ult) and complaining is the equivalent of dying to a sticky trap and complaining that it wasnt aimed, or getting killed by an ubered scout and complaining that he was invincible

widow ult is bad though just because its so inherently unavoidable and theres no way to stop it, even by killing the widow

I'd argue that it's more just the fact that 76 and Widow have the laziest fucking ults design wise rather than it being that they're too strong or unfair or something. His ult is fine balance wise; like you said, almost every ult in the game is cheese to an extent and is reliant on positioning/health/etc. of both the person ulting and his/her targets. With 76, you'll generally only die to it if you're lit or a squishy. Anyone else has ample time to drop his shit, and stuff like Reinheardt/Winston shields, Mei's ice wall, Roadhog's hook, and Junkrat's bomb can block or interrupt his ult. There really are no problems with it balance wise, it's just fundamentally lazy as fuck and I wish they thought of something more original and interesting for him and Widow.

I don't hear people complain much about other ults except Mei's and Hanzo's (which are both pretty mediocre, dunno why people moan about them) but 76 and Widow catch shit because the actual design behind the ult is the antithesis of skill based first person shooter dude-shooting. I personally don't give a shit but I understand when someone who takes fps's pretty seriously and likes them to be fairly skill indexed is irritated that two characters in the game have ults that give them a few seconds of actual cheats.

I do agree, but I also believe that mechanics like 76's ult being reworked to require aim would probably be better for the game overall. I don't think his aimbot ult is the inherent problem it's frequently made out to be because, as you say, it's a sodding ultimate. However, I'd imagine at least some would agree with me that 76's ult, for example, giving him no recoil nor reloads for its duration rather than aimbot - this is just a rough example I've seen Platinum give in another thread which seems solid, but more generally speaking something roughly equally powerful but still requiring him to aim - would be preferable to its current state?

I'd argue that a mechanic which drastically increases the impact of a player's mechanical skill is often going to be preferable to a mechanic which replaces it entirely in an FPS. It just feels kinda cheap and not really contributing positively to the game to have an ultimate which removes your need to aim for a few seconds in a game where DM and raw mechanical skill are already of pretty low importance compared to some other FPS titles.

It also just sucks to have a duration-based ult where the most logical counterplay most of the time is to run and hide behind a wall or a shield until it's over because otherwise if you're vaguely on his screen you're lined up for an almost guaranteed death. Again, not necessarily a stupid or imbalanced mechanic, but it doesn't really feel enjoyable to play against I think. It's one of those ultimates where it's startlingly easy to counter and yet paradoxically you don't really feel like you've been outplayed at all if you die to it. If he happens to use when you're not really in a position to easily run away and hide, you don't really feel like you could've done a whole lot about it either, apart from just to not have been standing there. It's different to McCree's ult in that sense I think because of a) how vulnerable McCree is during the chargeup time and b) the fact that McCree's ult HAS that chargeup time where he's looking to get the most value out of his ult and you have that window to try and get away and maybe force him to either waste it or use it inefficiently. 76 can press Q and almost immediately start shooting.

This isn't to say there's NO counterplay to 76 ult, of course, or that it's necessarily a terrible thing. I just think it's not really a very cool ultimate and could be much cooler.

Agreed completely on Widow ult though fuck that

EDIT: got semi-ninja'd by obe_ above while I was typing this nerd essay and he said a lot of what I wanted to say in a much more concise manner, read his post if TL;DR

They should just change 76's ult to something that boosts damage and gives a higher clip size temporarily

One and only problem I have with Mei's ult is that her ult will either freeze you or stop when you kill her. It's not the actual thats the problem just that she can ult and then IMMEDIATELY freeze herself in her glacier so you cannot harm her, thus not being able to have a chance at deflecting her ult.

If she was unable to freeze in her ice thing for a brief time after her ult goes off I'd be fine with it

Read my first comment, kid. I was attacking the argument that overwatch isnt worth the time because it wasnt designed as a competitive game. TF2 also wasnt designed as a competitive game. So the argument is stupid.

Besides, the aimbot ult is actually kind of shitty tbh. Weird thing to latch on to.

Cause players literally sit in them. Everytime i hear the sound for his ult, I run away and turn to see my entire team get wiped.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_complex

I only played the beta a few times a while ago but it seemed like an okay game to me. Engine felt weird and therefor so did movement and aiming, im sure that as players get better and more experienced there will be more depth to the mechanical skill of the game. I'm pretty sure that for the most part all the other aspects of gameplay in an fps are going to be more important to how good you are at OW, but I think that everyone who says "its a braindead game dm wise" is kinda calling that a little early. I'm sure if you looked at melee in 2001 as a long term street fighter player it'd be easy to think that it was a braindead fighting game with simple mechanics i mean you just press b for specials you don't even need to memorize inputs! Give the players some time to get used to the mechanics and find the impressive hard to do things before you say it doesn't have them.

yeah i should clarify, if you have a problem with ults as a mechanic in general thats a fine argument to make but it really sinks my canoe seeing people say "overwatch has a built in aimbot lol!!" and pretend its a real argument against the game

Personally it just makes me think of a Quake player playing TF2 on launch and thinking it's too easy and doesn't have nuanced movement mechanics. Maybe it's less nuanced than Quake overall, but taking it at face value after 20 hours of playing isn't fair as that isn't enough time for 1) nuanced movement mechanics to be discovered at all 2) to be exposed to those mechanics or 3) to learn/master them. Similarly, I think Overwatch is probably ultimately less mechanically intensive as TF2, but like you said, I think people are calling it way too early on the dm and movement being totally braindead simple with no nuance at all.

What does concern me a bit is just how much time it takes for a player to "master" a class. Even Genji, arguably the toughest character mechanically, seems to have already been mastered by players like Seagull, and the game literally isn't even out yet. Again, it's too early to call because who knows what discoveries will be made in the future, but some skill ceilings really feel like they've already been reached by players.

e: Chiming in to say that I agree with fatswimdude; people who write off the game with very vague statements like "lol game gives you hacks 0/10" are overly dismissive. Those are the only two heroes in the game whose ults act remotely like a hack out of a total twenty-one and it seems pretty brash to completely write the game off with a blanket criticism like that.

They should change the Ult on Soldier76 to "no spread" on the weapon. That would give someone with good tracking easy kills with headshots and be actually more effective on someone with aim because instead of aimbot bodyshots you can drop people with headshots quickly. Aimbot to the body is stupid.

I wonder why people are not mentioning that S76 ult also gives him instant reloads during its duration. The thing I have a bit of an issue with is the fact that there are a few unwritten things in the game that are kind of important. Some of which is figured out it seconds admittedly. Reinhardt's Flame Strike says it goes through people, but it also goes through all barriers. Zarya has some obscene health regen, it may be related to her shields in some way. Winston can activate his jump pack at any point because it is a boost pack, not just a jump.

S76's ult isn't particularly great, but there are not a lot of solid alternatives. His rifle already does a ton of damage, making it better would probably be more troublesome. It's still absolutely ridiculous to try and condemn a game off of that. Same thing with calling Mei the Pyro, the Pyro isn't annoying for its strength in short range. The Pyro is much more annoying because of its airblast. Literally every offensive character wins that fight if a single ability is up

Off topic, but does anyone have a list of ex-TF2 Overwatch streams besides Seagull/Clockworks' ?

On topic, my biggest gripe , aside from what was mentioned already, is Symmetra's weapon. I'd very much prefer a medium range lightning gun opposed to the current laser-leash she has. She just feels so useless outside of dropping extremely frail minisentries. Maybe I'm just bad though.

Not necessarily ex-TF2 and they may not stream the final game but I saw the following stream during the open beta: Pharaoh, dummy, sigafoo, stabby, PYYYOUR, blindpyro, and foxpeace. Obviously there's Star and Jerma if you're into them. Sorry to anyone browsing this thread whose name I just listed who isn't planning on streaming Overwatch when it comes out. I just wanted to give names of people who I saw stream the open beta a decent amount.

Mangachu, Dummy, Pyyyour, Ruwin

It's because half her "health" is a shield, regens after a bit if you don't take any damage.

Overwatch is probably the most fun in a shooter I've had in several years. I was skeptical of the ults at first but they are fun and for the most part take some skill to use them effectively;there is great satisfaction for using yours well or shutting down an enemy one. After some pugs I'm definitely interested in playing it competitively. Its nice to play something with similar teamwork demands as TF2 that feels unique yet familiar.

I can't stress enough how good it feels to shutdown an ult. Ice walling an ulting S76 so that he literally can't shoot anything, picking off a Pharah from the skies, shooting a tire just before it gets too close, that shit is so good. Once as Roadhog I hooked a Tracer back to me after she stuck me with her ult and took her with me. I wish there was a "Shutdown" voice line or something. The POTG will recognize ult shutdowns so it seems like the game can recognize when an ult is interrupted in some way, so it would be cool if killing a person mid ult got a feel-good voice clip played for you.

The only ults that aren't fun to play against are ones that you can't "stop", like Widow's wallhacks or any of the healers' ults. Anything you can dodge or interrupt is a-okay in my book.

Ok good, that was what I expected (considering half her health was in blue, the color of shields). Still strange that it isn't said anywhere.

speaking of ults, i'm not sure i like how the game refunds ults if you die during them, like if as pharah you decide to use your ult really shittily and die right away you shouldn't get 50% back or whatever, it makes using an ultimate relatively low risk compared to how large the reward can be

It's a fun game, but it gets old for me pretty fast. I think it's because people are just bad at it right now, and I didn't play enough to get into very high levels. Enjoyable, just can't see it being super competitive.

So what's the difference between shields and armor? Shields regen, health doesn't, is armor a temporary boost? If so, how come D.Va's health is armor? I guess because her Mech is classed as armor?

Armor reduces instances of damage by 5 unless it's a <10 damage instance then it can't be reduced below half the damage dealt

http://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Armor

Shields just regen - no damage reduction.