Downsides of Ubercharge?

#1

azarun

0 Frags – +

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#2

penda

15 Frags – +

no dude

#3

ErenJay

16 Frags – +

sounds dumb

#4

CondoM

45 Frags – +

Have fun pushing through chokepoints without ubercharge
surely the game will be faster if no one can push anywhere ever

#5

penda

22 Frags – +

this is the equivalent of removing the bomb from CSGO, it just makes the game pure DM and makes no sense

#6

equal

4 Frags – +

The worst stalemates are on last, and this would be no better. A sentry or a heavy would make pushing last impossible pretty much. The concept of last would have to change completely.
No one wants to drypush 6v6 really, so you would wait 100 years for 1 (if you are greedy) or 2 picks. sniper would be much more vible to get the picks as well.

#7

roach

5 Frags – +

lol

#8

Inco

9 Frags – +

I don't think removing uber is going to magically make everyone more aggressive.

#9

azarun

-9 Frags – +

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#10

azarun

-9 Frags – +

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#11

Laan

6 Frags – +

ubercharge controls the pace of the game. If it gets taken away the meta will simply be, wait for the other team to push a choke and win the fight with incoming spam. This mentality also applies to the other team, so you'd have games where teams just wait for the other team to push.

This can also make the game pure dm, which would make it a lot more of a cluster fuck and confusing especially for new comers to the game/new spectators.

But I do enjoy doing dry pushes

ubercharge controls the pace of the game. If it gets taken away the meta will simply be, wait for the other team to push a choke and win the fight with incoming spam. This mentality also applies to the other team, so you'd have games where teams just wait for the other team to push.

This can also make the game pure dm, which would make it a lot more of a cluster fuck and confusing especially for new comers to the game/new spectators.

But I do enjoy doing dry pushes

#12

SpaceCadet

0 Frags – +

Removing Uber's would require a change to the entire game as we know it. It would be a return back to old QWTF (QuakeWorld TeamFortress) style game where Capture the Flag was more viable than Capture Point maps. Adding things like Instant spawns after death would be a necessity and true offense vs defense would have a place in TF2 unlike how it is now. The speed of the game would undoubtedly increase because of fast spawns.

More to the OP's main point, I don't think a change like this would increase the skill ceiling at all, it would just simply be a different way of playing TF2.

IncoI don't think removing uber is going to magically make everyone more aggressive.

Actually, with the changes I stated above, TF2 would become an ultra aggressive and fast paced game.

Removing Uber's would require a change to the entire game as we know it. It would be a return back to old QWTF (QuakeWorld TeamFortress) style game where Capture the Flag was more viable than Capture Point maps. Adding things like Instant spawns after death would be a necessity and true offense vs defense would have a place in TF2 unlike how it is now. The speed of the game would undoubtedly increase because of fast spawns.

More to the OP's main point, I don't think a change like this would increase the skill ceiling at all, it would just simply be a different way of playing TF2.

[quote=Inco]I don't think removing uber is going to magically make everyone more aggressive.[/quote]

Actually, with the changes I stated above, TF2 would become an ultra aggressive and fast paced game.

#13

Hafficool

13 Frags – +

nice post

#14

ErenJay

7 Frags – +

I think all ranged weapons make the game more slow actually cause you can just sit back and do damage from far away, we should just get rid of all the guns

#15

azarun

-8 Frags – +

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#16

Maxi-

6 Frags – +

Teams are even less likely to push without a clear advantage, you'd be waiting for the other team to make a mistake

azarunCSGO is already easy to follow and spectate, tf2 is not.

that's not because of uber but the spectating tools Valve has added in.

Teams are even less likely to push without a clear advantage, you'd be waiting for the other team to make a mistake

[quote=azarun]CSGO is already easy to follow and spectate, tf2 is not.[/quote]

that's not because of uber but the spectating tools Valve has added in.

#17

zeFrosty

6 Frags – +

I feel like this would be even worse in lower teirs than in higher teirs tbh. Its hard enough to get in and do anything when your dm isn't super on point!

#18

azarun

-7 Frags – +

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#19

T0m

10 Frags – +

haha yeah we should allow the quick fix again that will surely help

#20

riotbz

2 Frags – +

azarunPendaCSGOCSGO is already easy to follow and spectate, tf2 is not.

completely taking what he said out of context ok mate

[quote=azarun][quote=Penda]CSGO[/quote]
CSGO is already easy to follow and spectate, tf2 is not.[/quote]
completely taking what he said out of context ok mate

#21

BumFreeze

8 Frags – +

remove the biggest thing that makes this game unique and is the primary cause of any strategy or knowledge and turn it into just dm ok

#22

azarun

-9 Frags – +

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#23

Buttface_Jones

9 Frags – +

azarunBumFreezeremove the biggest thing that makes this game unique Ubercharge is the central thing in sixes but not in "this game". Newb that played only pubs can only figure sixes metagame (which revolves primarly around ubercharge mechanic) after getting an experienced mentor/reading handfull of guides/watching lots of casts, he will never pick this idea by himself, and thus making a big barrier between "this game" and sixes, that was my point.

I disagree. Back when I was playing The Orange Box on Xbox with no concept of competitive play it took me maybe a week of pubbing to determine that the medic was the most important class, ubercharge is the central focus of the game, and that the team with the best medic usually wins. This is true on all levels of TF2 because ubercharge is the defining characteristic of TF2.

[quote=azarun][quote=BumFreeze]remove the biggest thing that makes this game unique[/quote] Ubercharge is the central thing in sixes but not in "this game". Newb that played only pubs can only figure sixes metagame (which revolves primarly around ubercharge mechanic) after getting an experienced mentor/reading handfull of guides/watching lots of casts, he will never pick this idea by himself, and thus making a big barrier between "this game" and sixes, that was my point.[/quote]

I disagree. Back when I was playing The Orange Box on Xbox with no concept of competitive play it took me maybe a week of pubbing to determine that the medic was the most important class, ubercharge is the central focus of the game, and that the team with the best medic usually wins. This is true on all levels of TF2 because ubercharge is the defining characteristic of TF2.

#24

Stevie

1 Frags – +

Uber is one of the core components of comp tf2, it is the biggest advantage a team can get and there is not really a need to nerf/remove it.

#25

Setlet

8 Frags – +

Buttface_JonesazarunBumFreezeremove the biggest thing that makes this game unique Ubercharge is the central thing in sixes but not in "this game". Newb that played only pubs can only figure sixes metagame (which revolves primarly around ubercharge mechanic) after getting an experienced mentor/reading handfull of guides/watching lots of casts, he will never pick this idea by himself, and thus making a big barrier between "this game" and sixes, that was my point.
I disagree. Back when I was playing The Orange Box on Xbox with no concept of competitive play it took me maybe a week of pubbing to determine that the medic was the most important class, ubercharge is the central focus of the game, and that the team with the best medic usually wins. This is true on all levels of TF2 because ubercharge is the defining characteristic of TF2.

I concur, winning dustbowl is only possible with ubers

[quote=Buttface_Jones][quote=azarun][quote=BumFreeze]remove the biggest thing that makes this game unique[/quote] Ubercharge is the central thing in sixes but not in "this game". Newb that played only pubs can only figure sixes metagame (which revolves primarly around ubercharge mechanic) after getting an experienced mentor/reading handfull of guides/watching lots of casts, he will never pick this idea by himself, and thus making a big barrier between "this game" and sixes, that was my point.[/quote]

I disagree. Back when I was playing The Orange Box on Xbox with no concept of competitive play it took me maybe a week of pubbing to determine that the medic was the most important class, ubercharge is the central focus of the game, and that the team with the best medic usually wins. This is true on all levels of TF2 because ubercharge is the defining characteristic of TF2.[/quote]

I concur, winning dustbowl is only possible with ubers

#26

BumFreeze

5 Frags – +

azarunBumFreezeremove the biggest thing that makes this game unique (which revolves primarly around ubercharge mechanic)

you admit it right there, its like the most important thing in sixes and would change everything for the worse if removed

azarun he will never pick this idea by himself, and thus making a big barrier between "this game" and sixes

as soon as they try to play competitive they will notice they are just getting owned by ubercharges, its not too difficult for them to then understand to start using a medic

[quote=azarun][quote=BumFreeze]remove the biggest thing that makes this game unique[/quote] (which revolves primarly around ubercharge mechanic) [/quote]
you admit it right there, its like the most important thing in sixes and would change everything for the worse if removed
[quote=azarun] he will never pick this idea by himself, and thus making a big barrier between "this game" and sixes[/quote]
as soon as they try to play competitive they will notice they are just getting owned by ubercharges, its not too difficult for them to then understand to start using a medic

#27

feathers

0 Frags – +

interesting idea for an experimental tournament
probably could become its own gamemode, 5s possibly
don't really think it should be done for 6s because uber is super important and dry pushing is awful

SpaceCadetIt would be a return back to old QWTF (QuakeWorld TeamFortress) style game where Capture the Flag was more viable than Capture Point maps.

interesting idea for an experimental tournament
probably could become its own gamemode, 5s possibly
don't really think it should be done for 6s because uber is super important and dry pushing is awful
[quote=SpaceCadet]It would be a return back to old QWTF (QuakeWorld TeamFortress) style game where Capture the Flag was more viable than Capture Point maps.

#28

nyk

2 Frags – +

Removing sack plays to drop medics isn't a good thing. Without uber, the i55 upper bracket final (zebbo dropping shade twice on process, and also on snakewater, and starkie's spy play) would have been boring as fuck

#29

corsa

13 Frags – +

What If We Nerfed Demo To Speed Up The Game?

#30

SpaceCadet

4 Frags – +

feathersinteresting idea for an experimental tournament
probably could become its own gamemode, 5s possibly
don't really think it should be done for 6s because uber is super important and dry pushing is awfulSpaceCadetIt would be a return back to old QWTF (QuakeWorld TeamFortress) style game where Capture the Flag was more viable than Capture Point maps.

Back in the old days of QWTF, we used to almost always play 4v4 against our own team on every map to prepare for league play. 4 players on offense for 20 mins, then switch the same 4 players to defense for 20 mins. Whoever CTF the most wins. Was the best way to learn everything about a particular map, perfect jumps to and from the flag and showed your defensive players what to watch for and deny in matches.

I actually miss 4v4 the most from my Quake days because it was also a wonderful way to team build and have lasting friends for years. Sadly, TF2 doesn't have a way for a team to play itself and practice at the same time. Ultiduo is a joke.

I am not sure if something like CTF can work for TF2 because of how slow the game is compare to how fast Quake used to be. CTF is based on speed and consistency of attack from spawn to spawn. The same rules/game mode used for TF2 in 6's would not apply for a CTF match in my opinion. Under the correct rule set and game mode, it would be interesting and fun to try it with TF2 and see what happens.

[quote=feathers]interesting idea for an experimental tournament
probably could become its own gamemode, 5s possibly
don't really think it should be done for 6s because uber is super important and dry pushing is awful
[/quote]
[quote=SpaceCadet]It would be a return back to old QWTF (QuakeWorld TeamFortress) style game where Capture the Flag was more viable than Capture Point maps.[/quote]

Back in the old days of QWTF, we used to almost always play 4v4 against our own team on every map to prepare for league play. 4 players on offense for 20 mins, then switch the same 4 players to defense for 20 mins. Whoever CTF the most wins. Was the best way to learn everything about a particular map, perfect jumps to and from the flag and showed your defensive players what to watch for and deny in matches.

I actually miss 4v4 the most from my Quake days because it was also a wonderful way to team build and have lasting friends for years. Sadly, TF2 doesn't have a way for a team to play itself and practice at the same time. Ultiduo is a joke.

I am not sure if something like CTF can work for TF2 because of how slow the game is compare to how fast Quake used to be. CTF is based on speed and consistency of attack from spawn to spawn. The same rules/game mode used for TF2 in 6's would not apply for a CTF match in my opinion. Under the correct rule set and game mode, it would be interesting and fun to try it with TF2 and see what happens.