mild shitpost sorry, but someone mentioned pub players being unable to understand that mid caps slower than other points and I wanted to make a nerd post:
there's a lot of shit in tf2 that is horribly unintuitive or awkward, especially in a competitive format, so in the interest of making the game easier to understand and learn (in the interest of making MM more successful), here's a list of a relatively simple changes that I think could benefit the game in this regard. Most of them are HUD related in some way, because I think the TF2 HUD wasn't designed with all the unlocks in mind and it really shows. Some of the changes would also be most useful when looking at POVs or streams when being able to tell at a glance what loadout is used can be helpful. Most wouldnt be useful to the average Open player but w/e, I think this is something the comp community should be emphasizing the importance of to valve.
General:
- Make it more obvious if an enemy has a passive buff or debuff item equipped. Natascha, Danger Shield, etc should have like a sound when your damage is nerfed against them to make it more apparent that you're getting gayed by an unlock.
- Make the Escape Plan / Shahanshah have a HUD element that reminds bad players that they work better at low health. Arrows or Crosshairs that go like >/+ for a small bonus but go >>>/+++ for a big bonus might be cool idk. GRU/Eviction Notice/Whip should have the same I guess, and the Skullcutter should get negative arrows
- Make Gunboats / Booties / Other passive items apparent in the POV in some way. Don't really know a not stupid way to do that but maybe removing voice lines from jumping and changing the damage indicator color or smthn. Would just be sorta nice to be able to tell when you're watching a stream or cast. Someone is going to call this a retarded change but I'm going to stand by it because being able to read the game from a screenshot should be the ideal here imo
Demo:
- Make it more apparent that stickies are being destroyed on the HUD. If a sticky gets destroyed, the indicator should flash red or something
Medic:
MM HUD:
- 1. Remove cosmetic portions of the HUD where applicable. Knowing your killstreak isn't very useful in competitive and the default HUD gives way too much space to this element
- 2. If a player isnt using the model thing, their class should only be shown at the top. Realistically it should just show the class model thing at the top for every player, but w/e. Removing this makes the HUD a lot cleaner and the information is shown twice right now[/url]
- 3. The Upper player row should highlight you, and be ordered in some way. Best would be to make it static so the first player to join is most left or w/e. Just makes it easier to keep an idea of who's playing what without reiterating the information somehow or necessitating opening the scoreboard. This hud element is actually very well done imo. Only thing it could use would be a CS style mini mode where it just counts the number of living players per team.
- 4. Try to indicate in some way how fast points cap. Right now, there's no real indicator that gully mid and second cap at the same rate, or that badlands last caps so fast. I can't think of a good way to do this though tbh. Making the boxes true to size would look awkward af but making it obvious to the audience/player that different points cap at different speeds is important in explaining why people do certain things.
5. Spawns. If you're eligible for a spawn cycle it should be kinda clear. So many new players have no idea that switching spawns is a thing but its hella important in 6s and even a little green door on the HUD that might help get them in the right direction would be a big help imo.
There's a lot of other things that could be more readable in TF2 (my actual list is ~3x as long as this one) but this is mostly stuff that's either recurrently unnoticed in MM and lobbies or shit that I don't notice when I'm watching a stream. Thanks :)
mild shitpost sorry, but someone mentioned pub players being unable to understand that mid caps slower than other points and I wanted to make a nerd post:
there's a lot of shit in tf2 that is horribly unintuitive or awkward, especially in a competitive format, so in the interest of making the game easier to understand and learn (in the interest of making MM more successful), here's a list of a relatively simple changes that I think could benefit the game in this regard. Most of them are HUD related in some way, because I think the TF2 HUD wasn't designed with all the unlocks in mind and it really shows. Some of the changes would also be most useful when looking at POVs or streams when being able to tell at a glance what loadout is used can be helpful. Most wouldnt be useful to the average Open player but w/e, I think this is something the comp community should be emphasizing the importance of to valve.
General:
[list]
[*] Make it more obvious if an enemy has a passive buff or debuff item equipped. Natascha, Danger Shield, etc should have like a sound when your damage is nerfed against them to make it more apparent that you're getting gayed by an unlock.
[*] Make the Escape Plan / Shahanshah have a HUD element that reminds bad players that they work better at low health. Arrows or Crosshairs that go like >/+ for a small bonus but go >>>/+++ for a big bonus might be cool idk. GRU/Eviction Notice/Whip should have the same I guess, and the Skullcutter should get negative arrows
[*] Make Gunboats / Booties / Other passive items apparent in the POV in some way. Don't really know a not stupid way to do that but maybe removing voice lines from jumping and changing the damage indicator color or smthn. Would just be sorta nice to be able to tell when you're watching a stream or cast. Someone is going to call this a retarded change but I'm going to stand by it because being able to read the game from a screenshot should be the ideal here imo
[/list]
Demo:
[list]
[*] Make it more apparent that stickies are being destroyed on the HUD. If a sticky gets destroyed, the indicator should flash red or something
[/list]
Medic:
[list]
[*][url=http://puu.sh/pzFYy/ee5a4558f3.jpg]1. should be more clear in some way. I'd prefer players you've healed recently have the glow outline but just making this element a little easier to follow in some way would be cool. Class icon on top of it or smth would be easyish to do.
[*]2. Put an indicator for heal speed here. Like a little health cross with fast arrows coming out whenever crit heals are active, and a regular health cross when they're not.[/url]
[*][url=http://puu.sh/pzG8B/7ff9a1d83a.jpg]3. the autoheal indicators need to be on by default, and maybe be more informative. If someone wouldn't mind implementing ~3 new textures, different crosses would be cool. White ones for anyone under the threshold, red for <25% patients, speed arrows if someone has crit heals or something.[/url]
[*][url=http://puu.sh/pzGia/d0ce7619b6.jpg]4. This already has some context sensitivity in the form of turning red or fiery when low health or burning, but adding speedy cross or w/e to emphasize crit heals could help[/url]
[*][url=http://puu.sh/pzGza/461f684d90.jpg]5. Make the ammo indicator for the patient have some sort of context colors for low ammo. Even people who aren't terrible can start tuning it out and not notice their patient is low[/url]
[*]6. Make some part of the HUD actually say what medigun is being used (by default). Most pubbies use viewmodels but it'd be such a simple change and could stop horrible accidents
[/list]
MM HUD:
[list]
[*] [url=http://puu.sh/pzIRb/bcfbbef036.png]1. Remove cosmetic portions of the HUD where applicable. Knowing your killstreak isn't very useful in competitive and the default HUD gives way too much space to this element
[*] 2. If a player isnt using the model thing, their class should only be shown at the top. Realistically it should just show the class model thing at the top for every player, but w/e. Removing this makes the HUD a lot cleaner and the information is shown twice right now[/url]
[*] 3. The Upper player row should highlight you, and be ordered in some way. Best would be to make it static so the first player to join is most left or w/e. Just makes it easier to keep an idea of who's playing what without reiterating the information somehow or necessitating opening the scoreboard. This hud element is actually very well done imo. Only thing it could use would be a CS style mini mode where it just counts the number of living players per team.
[*]4. Try to indicate in some way how fast points cap. Right now, there's no real indicator that gully mid and second cap at the same rate, or that badlands last caps so fast. I can't think of a good way to do this though tbh. Making the boxes true to size would look awkward af but making it obvious to the audience/player that different points cap at different speeds is important in explaining why people do certain things.
5. Spawns. If you're eligible for a spawn cycle it should be kinda clear. So many new players have no idea that switching spawns is a thing but its hella important in 6s and even a little green door on the HUD that might help get them in the right direction would be a big help imo.
[/list]
There's a lot of other things that could be more readable in TF2 (my actual list is ~3x as long as this one) but this is mostly stuff that's either recurrently unnoticed in MM and lobbies or shit that I don't notice when I'm watching a stream. Thanks :)
idk about wee booties, but I know of a general change that would show off the gunboats: have different damage indicators depending on the type of damage you take, so different colors/contrasts for mini crits, crits, resisted and weakened damages. so when you rocket jump with the gunboats, it would always show you taking resisted damage
idk about wee booties, but I know of a general change that would show off the gunboats: have different damage indicators depending on the type of damage you take, so different colors/contrasts for mini crits, crits, resisted and weakened damages. so when you rocket jump with the gunboats, it would always show you taking resisted damage
Some of these are good ideas, but others are just lowering the skill ceiling of the game IMO
If they were MM only that'd work I suppose, but if the slugs of pub servers want to be good at the game, they should learn to be good at the game - not rely on some hud element or something.
Think about Quake Live where they implemented the hud timers for the pickups, pissed a lot of people off because that was always a fundamental part in why the game was so hard to learn and what not. These ideas aren't nearly as close as this, but lowering the skill ceiling at all is never really a good approach imo.
Some of these are good ideas, but others are just lowering the skill ceiling of the game IMO
If they were MM only that'd work I suppose, but if the slugs of pub servers want to be good at the game, they should learn to be good at the game - not rely on some hud element or something.
Think about Quake Live where they implemented the hud timers for the pickups, pissed a lot of people off because that was always a fundamental part in why the game was so hard to learn and what not. These ideas aren't nearly as close as this, but lowering the skill ceiling at all is never really a good approach imo.
i'm really concerned about muselk testing this hud
i'm really concerned about muselk testing this hud
Eh honestly a lot of these are unnecessary and if valve were to add them, they'd be buggy for months. There are more important things that should be done first.
You dont need a special hud element to show you that blands last caps quickly, all you need is to have played the map once, and for stuff like forward spawns just add a loading screen tip or something, and add a brief explanation about crit heals in the medigun description. Natasha/gunboats/danger shield are just a part of the game and you need to learn what they do, it's just a part of the beginner learning curve
Eh honestly a lot of these are unnecessary and if valve were to add them, they'd be buggy for months. There are more important things that should be done first.
You dont need a special hud element to show you that blands last caps quickly, all you need is to have played the map once, and for stuff like forward spawns just add a loading screen tip or something, and add a brief explanation about crit heals in the medigun description. Natasha/gunboats/danger shield are just a part of the game and you need to learn what they do, it's just a part of the beginner learning curve
STOGESome of these are good ideas, but others are just lowering the skill ceiling of the game IMO
If they were MM only that'd work I suppose, but if the slugs of pub servers want to be good at the game, they should learn to be good at the game - not rely on some hud element or something.
Think about Quake Live where they implemented the hud timers for the pickups, pissed a lot of people off because that was always a fundamental part in why the game was so hard to learn and what not. These ideas aren't nearly as close as this, but lowering the skill ceiling at all is never really a good approach imo.
Lowering a skill ceiling doesn't mean that the game is worse because of it. As an abstract example: if a sniper who maintained 100% HS accuracy for 25 shots was immediately kicked by the server, the skill ceiling would be lowered, but it could be a good change because it would only affect hackers. Some of these changes might make the game easier to learn and therefore less skill indexed, but you have to consider 1.) do you want TF2 to be based on who's memorized the most obscure gameplay features and 2.) would you sacrifice a bit of the skill ceiling in an attempt to draw more players into the game?
[quote=STOGE]Some of these are good ideas, but others are just lowering the skill ceiling of the game IMO
If they were MM only that'd work I suppose, but if the slugs of pub servers want to be good at the game, they should learn to be good at the game - not rely on some hud element or something.
Think about Quake Live where they implemented the hud timers for the pickups, pissed a lot of people off because that was always a fundamental part in why the game was so hard to learn and what not. These ideas aren't nearly as close as this, but lowering the skill ceiling at all is never really a good approach imo.[/quote]
Lowering a skill ceiling doesn't mean that the game is worse because of it. As an abstract example: if a sniper who maintained 100% HS accuracy for 25 shots was immediately kicked by the server, the skill ceiling would be lowered, but it could be a good change because it would only affect hackers. Some of these changes might make the game easier to learn and therefore less skill indexed, but you have to consider 1.) do you want TF2 to be based on who's memorized the most obscure gameplay features and 2.) would you sacrifice a bit of the skill ceiling in an attempt to draw more players into the game?
there's a general issue in assuming skill to be a linear slider, and this is sorta why
if you had to play QWOP every time you wanted to move in an FPS, it'd take a lot of skill to get to mid, sure, but that doesn't mean it's a particularly useful or dynamic skill. by comparison, all the execution requirements you have for optimal rocket jumping is great because it directly results in a fuckton of potential movement options. you aren't doing difficult stuff for the sake of it or because the game tells you to, each input made when doing a complex jump means something and any change in input can create wildly different results
disliking the quake live pickups makes sense, because learning the timing of them directly changes how you're moving around the maps to keep them in mind, so that directly pokes and prods at the core game. with TF2, people don't care that the medic can learn all the weird small shit, they care how the medic proceeds with their potential uber advantage/disadvantage and how well they can guess the gap. there's no useful skill in being able to know how long it takes to cap something, what matters is how you intend to deal with attacking/defending that point during that time
so long as you minimize the impact on the important stuff, cutting the fluff nobody pays attention to down can only be a good thing. obviously, that's a thin line to work within, but it's more than possible
there's a general issue in assuming skill to be a linear slider, and this is sorta why
if you had to play QWOP every time you wanted to move in an FPS, it'd take a lot of skill to get to mid, sure, but that doesn't mean it's a particularly useful or dynamic skill. by comparison, all the execution requirements you have for optimal rocket jumping is great because it directly results in a fuckton of potential movement options. you aren't doing difficult stuff for the sake of it or because the game tells you to, each input made when doing a complex jump means something and any change in input can create wildly different results
disliking the quake live pickups makes sense, because learning the timing of them directly changes how you're moving around the maps to keep them in mind, so that directly pokes and prods at the core game. with TF2, people don't care that the medic can learn all the weird small shit, they care how the medic proceeds with their potential uber advantage/disadvantage and how well they can guess the gap. there's no useful skill in being able to know how long it takes to cap something, what matters is how you intend to deal with attacking/defending that point during that time
so long as you minimize the impact on the important stuff, cutting the fluff nobody pays attention to down can only be a good thing. obviously, that's a thin line to work within, but it's more than possible